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Drew

7 Months Ago

Is Art Being Used As A Tool Of Hate?

Is art being used as a tool of hate?
Are the haters using extremes to justify their agenda?
Are they using reason and common perception to justify their agenda?
What can be done to mitigate this hate?

No politics or religion please!
Express your opinions and ideas without politics or religion. Use historical references of the past if you have to.



Black and white image ref:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_Art_Exhibition

Also consider this definition of art and how complex the definition has become.
While the argument of what art is has been determined as relativistic; meaning there is a relationship between the sentient viewer/listener and an abstract structure created by a sentient being such that the viewer/listener recognizes that the abstract structure to have at least one of the follow three attributes: It must be a vector of communication, or it is a means of entertainment or it evokes emotion. If the viewer/listener does not find at least one of these attributes then it is not recognized as art by said viewer/listener.

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Floyd Snyder

7 Months Ago

It is, always has been and always will be.

But I personally see no reason to discuss it and broaden the platform for the haters.

And it is almost impossible to do so and eliminate race, religion or politics because the vast majority of the hate-filled art is aimed at one of the three.

You violated your own request of leaving politics out and then posted a link to this.

"The Degenerate Art Exhibition (German: Die Ausstellung "Entartete Kunst") was an art exhibition organized by Adolf Ziegler and the Nazi Party in Munich from 19 July to 30 November 1937."

 

Regina Valluzzi

7 Months Ago

I think it can be a useful exercise. Rather than a platform for haters, discussing the topic provides us with ways to decode manipulative and hateful propaganda. History has plenty of lessons. Contemporary bias provides plenty of non-political and non-religious examples too (we could even use Sports team memes as examples!)

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

The funniest part of that, the chastity belt looked worn out.

Dave

 

Isabella Shores

7 Months Ago

You MAY discuss religious and political ART. Just not the religion or politics themselves.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Floyd, this is not a platform for you to dismiss. Either contribute to the idea of hate mitigation, or identify points of cause points, or opposition, or simply stay off the thread!

Thanks Abbie! That gives us a little more latitude.

Regarding the subject, this work of Picasso always comes to mind .

This art was created the same year that the degenerate art exhibition was held. 1937

 

Robert Coppen

7 Months Ago

Guernica. Rockwell Kent. Goya. Banksy. Etc.

Does hating war qualify as hate, or as something else?

 

Edward Fielding

7 Months Ago

Really? Infowars? It plays right to the mindset of the Supermarket Tabloid buyers.

 

Bill Posner

7 Months Ago

Art comes from emotions, that includes all of them

 

Kathy Anselmo

7 Months Ago

If you realize in a moment of clarity and careful insight: you are not part of upper-class art culture and never will be. Unless you have been vetted very carefully and have family or contacts within the upper-class, you are not getting into the club. You have absolutely no understanding of upper-class art culture, zero, nada and very likely of art culture itself or really anything that has to with any type of real culture other then pre-fabricated suburban life... there is nothing wrong with that, except there is no real understanding what being "cultured" is within the bubble of the modern pill popping, bread and circus, beer guzzling anti-culture of suburbanite life...

 

Seems like it would be hard to discuss "hate in art" and not discuss religion and/or politics. The part I find funny (and not in a haha sort of way) is that Drew has decided the opinion of one of the posters does not matter and he should stay out of the thread. Free speech much?

 

Edward Fielding

7 Months Ago

The video is more about hate OF modern art. Or hate of those darn educated elites.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Joe, as the originator of this thread, I also reserve the right to moderate and keep the intent of the proposition moving in a positive direction.
The following statement is a self exclusion statement from this thread."But I personally see no reason to discuss it and broaden the platform for the haters. "
I set explicit guidelines. Please stay within said guidelines or don't participate.

Kathy, Bill, Robert, and Edward. Excellent comments!
David, what's the relevance of your comment?

 

Marlene Burns

7 Months Ago

Yes,
Every form of expression/communication can be used for good and/or evil, love and/or hate, positive and/or negative......
Quite simply,every from of expression/communication is interpreted to fit the beliefs and mentality of the viewer, listener, reader.....as well as the creator.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

What about propaganda Marlene. It is designed specifically as Edward best put it toward the tabloid crowd with the intent to turn and or sway those who are targeted.
Consider this work by Diego Rivera:

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_at_the_Crossroads
Did Rockefeller destroy the original because it was propaganda; was it propaganda that was not to his liking or something else?

 

Marlene Burns

7 Months Ago

Drew, we are not disagreeing.
Propoganda targets those who can best be swayed...I'd fit that into a viewer's mentality category.

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

David, what's the relevance of your comment?

The speaker in the video was discussing modern art and hate. I think much of what he said and pointed out was very funny.

People tune in to what they want to hear. If you want to bash modern art, this video was for you.....not necessarily...the British like tongue in cheek humor. That is how I took most of it.

Dave

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

What part of the film did you find very funny and why David?

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

The whole thing is full of art school humor about the value of abstract originals.

"$46 million for this monstrosity......." From that beginning point onward the humor is pretty good.

Dave

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

David,
Is He using reason and common perception to justify his agenda?
"$46 million for this monstrosity......."
This guy has 421,626 views; 38K likes 634 dislikes which means 90% of the viewers agrees with much of what he is saying.
Are the art elite given the haters fodder for their agenda?

Marlene, just a little side note:
according to the definition of art I provided, there exist a group of individuals that consider what you perceive as hate propaganda as art including the video in question.

Is this image propaganda?

This painting was constructed by a company of artist somewhat similar to a corporation under the name of Michelangelo at the direction of Pope Julius 2.



 

Edward Fielding

7 Months Ago

Next up is the attack on those who enjoy fine wine, read The Atlantic, drive foreign cars, buy organic, have traveled to Sweden or have any kind of degree.

Followed by the cultural purge and book burning.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Edward, how does art contribute to your perception and how does it mitigate this horror that you describe?

 

HW Kateley

7 Months Ago



Are any of you familiar with Edward Bernays? He is sometimes referred to as the Father of Public Relations and used propaganda, and art in propaganda of course, extensively to achieve various commercial results.
One of the most despicable yet fascinating things he is credited for is co-opting the women's rights movement to sell women cigarettes. Lot's of cigarettes. Do an image search on
"Torches of Freedom" if curious.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

That is interesting HW! I will follow up with some research. Thank you for your comment. It seems like even the war between the sexes have those who seek to prophet from the dispute; and is possibly one of the factors of the war in the first place.

 
 

RD Erickson

7 Months Ago

Like a two edged sword, "Art is always seen as a threat to those who wish to impose their will on the masses." Since there have been humans for how many ever thousands of years - there are people or groups that don't like some other group because of one of those three things - race, religion, politics. Art is used by every side to the coin - and it often has more than one face. It's an add campaign - one against another - or a coalition of some against another. I do think that most of this kind of art involves politics.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Thanks Edward!
"Art is always seen as a threat to those who wish to impose their will on the masses."
It is too often that the ones imposing their will themselves art artist.

True RD.


Cultural_Revolution

Mapplethorpe art


 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Regina stated earlier:
"I think it can be a useful exercise. Rather than a platform for haters, discussing the topic provides us with ways to decode manipulative and hateful propaganda. History has plenty of lessons. Contemporary bias provides plenty of non-political and non-religious examples too (we could even use Sports team memes as examples!)"
These are Excellent Points! I would like to see specific examples representing both the positive and the negative.


 

Joe Burgess

7 Months Ago

Photography Prints

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

A very cerebral work of art Joe. I believe your message is to say that when there is an us and them mentally then someone will die.

 

Roy Erickson

7 Months Ago

Let me add a little: "Art is always seen as a threat to those who wish to impose their will on the masses." and while you mentioned it as a 'tool for hate' - it is also a tool for love and kindness; drawing empathy and sympathy for those in trouble or troubled with life.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/his/CoreArt/art/neocl_dav_marat.html

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Excellent Roy! The mitigation of hate through art. Thank you Roy! Feel free to post an example.



Jacques-Louis David: and
The Death of Marat.
David was a masters propagandist for Napoleon Bonaparte.

Here is an example of positive propaganda



 

James McCormack

7 Months Ago

Without getting into the political context, how much difference is there between Delacroix Liberty

Photography Prints


and

Wojciech-Weiss - Manifesto ( a group of men, one carrying a flag - Poland 1950)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Wojciech-Weiss-Manifest%281950-painting%29.jpg

Both are pushing ideals and carrying flags. Surely the right and the wrong of it depends on your personal beliefs?

Delacroix sells on FAA, Weiss doesn't - does that mean capitalism wins....?

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Good point James! The two major differences are the breasts frolicking in the breeze in the former.

 

James McCormack

7 Months Ago

Explains the popularity and why it has "liberty " in the title.

I was comparing flags, so to be fair - here is an idealistic Russian painting of women labouring. I quite like this painter. Zinaida Serebriakova

http://www.eurocles.com/data/peinture/s/serebriakova/serebriakova.jpg

(Imagine one of the nice ladies has a flag)

If she was from the Russian aristocracy was she "demeaning" or "glorifying" women's manual work, if she was soviet, would it be the opposite?

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

Are the art elite given the haters fodder for their agenda?

Drew,

If I bought into the art elite would I do what I do? Probably not. I do not find more of the same to be important.

Dave

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

If the 10% who has viewed the video I presented dislike it, and this is a representative statistical sample then dismissing this POV of this hater is paramount to sticking one's head in the sand. It's not the opinion of the narration but the way and the target of hate the narrator segways towards.

Good point James. If we don't know the origin or intent than the propaganda becomes ambiguous.

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

'38K likes 634 dislikes which means 90% of the viewers agrees with much of what he is saying'

This could just mean over 30k people have a great sense of humor. The that 600 hate or misunderstand British humor.

Dave

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

Drew,

He is a humorist....har har.....These jokes go back 20 years before I was in art school. Nothing changes.....
What he is doing best is opportunism.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Like I said, he may be an opportunist but statistical significance of the sample is an indicator of the views of the general population.
I'm not asking for nor am I a proponent of this video. Awareness and means of counter measures should be taken seriously to offset such skewed views that may be representative of the majority.

If anyone has such counter measures, please share. If you don't think this has significance then explain why. If you are in agreement with said views partially or in whole, explain why.

What's the old saying? If you deny a real problem or offer no solution then you are contributing to the problem with complacency? ....... Is that It?

 

RD Erickson

7 Months Ago

The more I read this thread - it is all about HATE. Why? What is it that just cries out to you to push controversy? It could as easily say that "art is being used as a tool of love". But we always drift towards the negative side of everything - even in art?

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

RD, an answer could be quite simple. The approval rate of this video is 90%.
If this is some kind of indicator of how the general population views the art world, what are you doing to offset this unjust perception?
If the statistics were flipped then we can blame it on the lunatic fringe; but it is not!

RD, the title of this thread is "Is Art Being Used As A Tool Of Hate?" It may be a subject that many do not want to address.

 

David Bridburg

7 Months Ago

Is art powerful enough to change this underbelly of human nature?

Should people be exposed long enough for most of them to begin to understand the falsehoods involved?

Dave

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

Good questions David! What are the answers and how can implementation take place.
Just a side note:
I am working on a way to implement a positive view towards the artistic community. I am not ready to fully discuss it at this point but I try to consider everything I learn from the FAA members who care to share not just only on this threads but consistently throughout the forums.

 

Drew

7 Months Ago

I want to thank the following artists for participating in this difficult but important study. Your responses give a greater understanding on the importance of how artist treat the highly controversial subject of art itself. I do not consider this as a completely accurate sample of artists' attitudes toward said subject BUT it does give some very important insights.

Floyd
Regina
David B
Abbie
Robert
Edward
Bill
Kathy
Joseph
Marlene
HW
RD
Joe
Roy
James

 

This discussion is closed.

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