Chicken

all i know is, chickens are awesome because they taste like all the other foods.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Modern birds descended from a group of two-legged dinosaurs known as theropods, so I imagine if man were alive during the time of the dinosaurs, they enjoy eating a velociraptor.

Lucky for us chicken and other fowl developed into smaller, more bucket friendly versions of their former selves.

Mike - yes, if not for chicken what would rabbit and snake among other things taste like. I've eaten rattlesnake but not rabbit.

Jim,

I have been having a weekly meal with my parents on Tuesdays. Last time mom made some large cut veggies and some olive oil, balsamic vinegar, salt pepper and a couple of herbs, then she roasted them for 45 minutes. Meanwhile dad went to the super market for two rotisserie birds. The meal was great.

Dave

David, I occasionally buy whole roasted birds from our local grocers if I don't feel like cooking. Generally they cost about $10 and are ok but I can buy a frying or roasting chicken for less and cook it myself if I have the ambition.

Chicken is not one of my favorite foods - the best part of a chicken are the eggs. Yes - I eat chicken - but I am with Jim - I'll take the thighs please - you can have all that chicken breast you desire. The best place in this town to get fried chicken is the deli at Publix. The only problem - why it tastes so good - it's called grease - and I'm pretty much on a grease free diet. We usually get one or two of those little Cornish Hens and bake them in the oven - pretty much like you would a regular big bird. Eggs - I usually eat three a day - fried so the yellow is still runny - for breakfast with grits and later with the yolk busted but not fried hard, over once, on a sandwich with cheese, mayonnaise and tomato. I use a cast iron skillet, pam, and once it gets hot - the egg starts cooking - I turn the heat off - the cast iron stays hot enough to finish the egg. The only other tip I have about cooking eggs - they shouldn't be rushed, cook them slow - they stay tender.

Mike - you are wrong - they don't taste like all other foods - all other foods taste like chicken. LOL

I've eaten squirrel, rabbit, rattlesnake, black bird, meadow lark, frog legs and gator tail - none of them taste like chicken.

Around here, Walmart has about the best rotisseried chicken

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chicken is not one of my favorite foods - the best part of a chicken are the eggs.
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And the best part about the eggs..... is the bacon.

◕‿◕

Michel
Meta-Travel Chicken Feed.

You guys need to watch the movie "Food INC"
When I saw the new version of 'chicken' that we are eating, I figured I could never enjoy another.
Today's chickens are engineered to reach consumption maturity in less than 49days. They grow so fast, that their legs can't hold them up and they never see the light of day....they are packed into filthy pens and can't even move if they could learn to walk.
Free range chickens only means they open up a door for a few minutes a day and let the ones who roll out, get some sunshine.
It's beyond disgusting.

RD - you've eaten black bird and meadowlark and you're still here to tell about it? I haven't bought a chicken at Walmart but did once at Superstore and I won't say how it tasted except it was my first and last purchase of such a fowl there.

Marlene, I agree, chicken in the grocery stores aren't what they used to be but it's the same with all foods these days. My Mom was raised on a farm and when I was younger and was working for my uncle my aunt had laying hens that we would butcher in the fall. They were grain fed and as big as small turkeys and the taste was out of this world.

Love fried chicken, not a big fan of chicken breast give me wings especially the wingets served in a hot sauce.

I have two favorite recipes for chicken, one is chicken parmigiana using boneless, skinless chicken breasts breaded and baked in a little olive oil and then when almost done add homemade tomato sauce with herbs, sprinkle parmesan cheese and add thick slice of mozzarella cheese on top, melts in your mouth!
The second recipe is for skinless chicken thighs barbequed, then add homemade barbeque sauce which is ketchup, garlic and brown sugar and serve the chicken with oven potatoes cut in wedges and sprinkled with garlic, onion salt, italian seasoning and paprika
We get some of our chicken from a local farmer and all of our beef from a friend who raises cows for beef, there is a definite taste difference to what is purchased in the grocery store and it is actually cheaper per pound to buy local meat

Zoom... I'll eat any part except the feet. When I go for dim sum with my Chinese friends I won't eat the chicken feet. There's a Chinese restaurant in my city that has these deep fried chicken wings that are to die for. They are big, much bigger than what you can buy and delicious. I like chicken breasts, I generally fry them on the stovetop.

To me, the tastiest part of the chicken are the 2 ends

The Neck

and

The Tail ("Pope's nose")


The gizzard is a close third

With the liver coming in fourth

I enjoy the heart too.

And then comes the dark meat

With white meat last and only if it's well seasoned

the feet make the best chicken stock for soup, i think you have to peel it first, and yeah, it looked gross.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Marlene,

Yes, Food, Inc. good doc. And did change a few of the ways I think about FOOD and how it becomes food!

Sam's has great rotisserie whole chickens! First night, chicken and then a few nights later, my own recipe, Cuban Burritos! LARGE Tortilla, yellow rice, black beans,chicken and then Mexican cheese, microwave 2 minutes and then add the salsa, jalapenos and sour cream!!!

Rich

Jim the only way I will eat chicken breast is as a cutlet breaded in plain bread crumbs with lots of chopped parsley and fried with a fresh marinara sauce.

A recipe I was passed on for chicken wings. 4 lbs of wings fresh never frozen. Flour mixture and medium grind yellow cornmeal salt and black pepper. I section the wings and toss the tips. I then bread them in the flour mixture and deep fry in corn oil for about 20 to 30 min. turning half way through and then drain in paper towel. Then I place in a large bowel and I add the hot wing sauce as it's boiling hot and toss then until fully coated.

The sauce is made with 1 cup of franks hot wing sauce and 1 full stick of butter. Have plenty of cold beer on hand. I serve it with celery sticks and Marie's blue chunky blue cheese dressing and several dozen little neck steamed clams and lemon wedges.

Zoom,

Sounds good, but don't have a fryer!

Here's my recipe for grilled wings. Wings spread out on very large platter, spray one side with PAM, then garlic powder, Chef Prudhomme Poultry spice, THEN Montreal Steak and PAM it! turn over and repeat. Cook on medium about 50 minutes, 15,15,10, and 10. Then in large bowl, toss wings with Rickey's Hot Sauce, fries of course and celery and dipping sauce!

Rich

I also like the thighs. My favorite way to prepare chicken is probably rosemary chicken.
Salt and pepper chicken, coat pan and chicken lightly in extra virgin olive oil. Peel several large toes of garlic and quarter them. Fresh rosemary and then sprinkle McCormick's Tuscan seasoning lightly over. Bake covered until the last few minutes, uncover to allow proper crisping and browning. Very easy and tasty.

As far as food in general wether it's chicken or anything else, anything we buy in the marketplace these days isn't as good as it used to be.
Back to the topic at hand... I cook wings in my deep fryer and they come out pretty good. I won't buy fresh chicken anymore, the last time I did it was very bland so I have been buying frozen chicken burgers lately. I have tried brining chicken, you soak it for several hours in a salt water solution and it comes out really moist but doesn't get as crispy as I like. I sometimes make chicken soup, I buy a whole bird and boil it until the meat falls off the bones and then add any veggies I have.

Here's another one, chicken caesar salad - love it, just fry the boneless, skinless chicken breasts in a little olive oil and I add roasted red pepper and garlic seasoning, cut up and mix with romaine lettuce and a homemade caesar salad dressing, yum!

We were coming down the interstate from Georgia the other day - there were white feathers blowing all over the road. We soon caught up to the semi sized load of open chicken crates stuffed with "live" chickens - at 70 MPH - yep - they was losing feathers everywhere. I presume they were headed towards Florida's largest chicken processing plant - Pilgrim's Pride near Live Oak that was recently sued over dumping into the Suwanee River. (There was a settlement, of course).

When I was a kid - I got the neck - and the backbone and the "pope's nose". There were 5 people and only one chicken on the table. That's ok - I like the neck and the backbone - as well as the gizzard and heart - not the liver - thank you - I think the dog got that. We raised our own chickens - free range they had over about 5 acres.

Living on a large farm where we raised cattle as well as chickens (mostly for the eggs to sell) we ate lots more beef than chicken. Beef so often - that when I got away from home - I would never order it - today - it's mostly a rib-eye - if I can find one with the rib still attached.

added - Debbie - I'd much rather have a shrimp caesar salad than chicken.

"You guys need to watch the movie "Food INC" "

Food Inc was funded almost entirely by the organic industry. They stand to profit immensely from its propaganda.

I won't delve into all of the abundant lies found in the film, but will point out its dangerous to believe a documentary created with an agenda by a group of people who stand to profit from said agenda.

When I cook turkey I will cook the the neck too. Generally with chicken I throw out the gizzard. My father was an avid hunter and we used to bag pheasant, hungarian or grey partridge, ruffed grouse and prairie chickens. Pheasants were the best of course. We would always cook the heart and gizzard of these wild birds.

Has anyone here actually witnessed a chicken crossing a road?

"Anything we buy in the marketplace these days isn't as good as it used to be."

As someone who puts that food into those supermarkets......I disagree.

Beef is my industry, and the product we place in supermarkets far exceeds that of what we were doing even 10 years ago. It is safer, more efficient, and tastier than ever.

Why did the punk rocker cross the road?
answer - he was pinned to the chicken...

Now talking about chickens......the modern "broiler" does grow at an alarming rate. They have achieved the highest feed conversion rate of any animals grown for food, and its not even close. That is what makes modern chicken more tender, and also makes it have lest inherent "taste". An old standard breed absolutely tastes different than a modern broiler....mostly because it was much older. It is also much tougher, and is single breasted instead of double breasted.

But, because it is much older, it is also much less feed efficient, and takes a lot more time, space, feed, and resources to make. If we fed the world with the old standard breeds, chicken would probably cost 2 to 3x what it does per pound now. Quite frankly, the market cares much more about cheap chicken that tastes good than more expensive chicken that tastes great. That is why we have what we have. If ya'll want to start buying standard breeds at 2x or 3x the costs, people will start raising them for you!

@RD Love shrimp caesar salad as well
I agree with Thomas, everyone has an agenda that will benefit them the most, do you believe everything you see and read on the internet?

Down here in Key West we are being overrun by iguanas, from what I hear, they are putting them on the restaurant menu. It's being called... ready for this...chicken of the tree.

Bob
http://bobsphotography.com

Bob, please don't tell me they taste like chicken...

Jim,

Our rotisserie chickens are only $5 for a good sized bird.

My folks were getting Kosher chickens before they moved across towns for $14. Those were far better.

Dave

$5? Wow! David, they are double that here in Alberta. The white meat is always too dry whenever I buy one. I have tried several fast food outlets and KFC remains my favorite.

Love me some chicken salad. Especially curried chicken salad.

Chicken wings are a favorite too. And my wife does this great recipe with chicken thighs and dried apricots and prunes.

I've had the chicken feet at Dim Sum. Interesting but maybe save it for special occasions.

When we want a rotisserie chicken, it's now from Costco (if the timing.s right for dinner). The one bird is usually good for 3 meals (for $5), and then stock if i'm feeling energetic. When I moved from Australia to North America, I couldn't understand why the beef didn't taste as good - finally realized most beef here wasn't grass fed.

Edward, generally I only like chicken by itself and without too much spices or other flavorings. You can't beat the natural flavor of real chicken.
Does anyone have Popeyes or Jollibees where you live? Popeyes just arrived here but I haven't tried it yet and Jollibees are coming soon.

Steven, Our Alberta beef is considered to be among the best anywhere. My uncle had a cattle farm. His were grass fed and then grain fed when they were shipped to feedlots. He would keep one every year and feed it grain before having it butchered. I never had beef that tasted so good. There's something about the climate in our province that makes the grass better for cattle.

Jim,

I live in a competitive area with a choice of supermarkets and Costco.

I had some sort of scoop from a supermarket guy years ago that the birds are over ordered. Then what does not sell gets cooked for sale at a later time. Those are the rotisserie chickens. So they do not HAVE TO BE hugely marked up.

Dave

BTW Steven, we used to get frozen steaks from Oz here but I never tried them since I live in cattle country.
Dave, I don't shop at Costco but I hear that all their meat is quite good.

My dad gets the steaks, rib eyes, there. We have a couple of steaks about once a month on our Tuesday get together. Fantastic steaks.

He goes to Stop and Shop for the chicken, it is a bit closer.

He also goes to Trader Joe's for rack of lamb. It is like 8 to 10 lamb chops lined up in rack. He cuts it in half for us after broiling it. He insists the dog needs to get some. I refuse to give the dog any lamb, so I get the slightly smaller half.

Dave

Thomas, Has the organic industry funded all the reports that back up the way these poor animals are raised? I only cited one source.....there are dozens!

Getting popcorn

David, I had lamb once years ago and never tried it again. I'd eat beef more if I could afford it. The price went up a few years back and hasn't come back down. A decent sized rib roast here is usually well over $20 and probably closer to $30.

Jim,

If I had to guess, this is what my dad is buying and then freezing. The pic does not nearly do the meat justice, the real thing looks much better.

About $15 each

https://m.costco.com/Rastelli-Organic-Grass-Fed-Ribeye-Steaks%2c10-oz-6-pack.product.100204026.html

Dave

Jim, that took some work to get the link to work.

David, the link doesn't work but someone gave me steak from Costco once and it was really good. Yes the link works now. $26 per pound, mighty expensive!

https://m.costco.com/grocery-household.html?dept=Grocery&keyword=rib+roast&pageSize=96

Jim,
Rib Roast, we do this once a year with extended family.

Dave

Jim, I fixed that link two posts up Yes $26 per pound

From now on I'm saying, "running around like a velociraptor with its head cut off." Because that is awesome.

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Board Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

David, you'd have to take out a bank loan to pay for those!
Susan.. that's cool.. How about... Why did the velociraptor cross the road?

I am with Marlena. I don't know when it started and chicken breast became very tough. Read up on why they are tough: http://mentalfloss.com/article/508493/what-those-white-stripes-chicken-breasts-mean-your-health A few years ago my daughter broke out in hives. It was most likely due to the antibiotics in the chicken she had eaten. She is allergic to them. We now will buy organic and if possible from local farmers. Margarine is an outdated kitchen staple which should never enter your body. Even butter will be better.

Yeah, this factory farming thing is out of hand. Something's gotta give.

Iris, not to mention the hormones!!
Regarding margarine, I know there's a myth rolling around that it is one molecule away from being plastic. The truth of the matter is that if you leave a container of it outside, no insects will even bother approaching it! THAT tells ya something!!

Uggh.......

It is ILLEGAL to use hormones an ANY chicken or pork production. There are no added hormones in chicken.....ever. If you see a label on chicken that says "Hormone Free" they are advertising to your fear.

Regarding hormones in cattle....did you know that there is 4,000 times the amount of hormones in a single birth control pill as there is in a cattle growth implant that lasts the bovine his entire life? The added hormones are simply estrogens and androgens....hormones that are found naturally in all beef animals and in your own body as well. The hormones in the meat of a implanted animal vs a non implanted animal differ by about 20%, and are still way way way lower than many foods you consume. Here is a table showing the amount of estrogenic hormones in common foods.

Table 1. Estrogenic activity of common foods (ng/500g)
Food Estrogenic Activity
Soy fl our defatted 755,000,000
Tofu 113,500,000
Pinto beans 900,000
White bread 300,000
Peanuts 100,000
Eggs 555
Butter 310
Milk 32
Beef from implanted steer 7
Beef from non-implanted steer 5

Regarding chickens and the conditions they are kept....I do not keep commercial hogs or chickens.....but I do keep cattle. The videos shown in these documentaries do NOT represent how animals are actually kept, they intentionally make it look bad. I can only assume the same is true for other industries. Please....come to a farm, visit one, see the animals yourself, touch them, feed them.......look in their eyes. You'll be amazed that they aren't afraid since we obviously treat them so horribly. All I know is this....if a cow or calf or steer is stressed and not comfortable he will not eat well. If he doesn't eat well, he loses weight, and loses money. If my animals lose money....I don't eat. People who mistreat their animals go out of business. I know people think keeping chickens and hogs indoors is cruel, but they also have never spent a night outside when its -5 and blowing 40 degrees and snowing. They have never seen a hog suffering heat distress in 105 degree sweltering heat. They don't understand that every wild animal out there loves loves loves to eat chicken.

Regarding antibiotic use in animals......any animal given antibiotics has a withdrawal period before they can go to slaughter based on research of the specific drug. Normally, the withdrawal period is TWICE the time it takes the antibiotic to completely leave the system. Meat is USDA tested in batches for antibiotics........the meat that reaches your table, whether beef pork or chicken or turkey or goat or lamb or veal, is ALWAYS antibiotic free. No exceptions. You can argue that some chicken houses feed antibiotics as a preventative measure and you don't like that....and I would support that argument and we could have a conversation.....I don't think its best practice either.....but they do it for a reason and that is to have healthy animals that don't die on them, and be able to produce the food as efficiently as possible. Noble goals really.

What is a factory farm? Can someone please give me the definition? I have been on thousands of farms.....and they have all been owned be people who love their land, their animals, and put in work days harder than you can imagine caring for them. The next time it blizzards out here on the plains of Kansas and I have calves being born in the thick of it fighting for their lives I'll be there fighting with them.....pushing past the point of exhaustion to save every last one of them if I can. I'll be there tossing hay by hand if I have to so my girls have the energy to stay warm in the cold.........am I a factory farm because we are successful and have a large operation? Help me out....who are these evil factory farmers that care nothing about the animals? I live out here, I don't know where they are.

The key to affordable beef is to buy it by the half, quarter, or whole. You pay on average $4 per pound that way to your freezer. So the hamburger is a little more expensive than what you can find in the store, but in my opinion is of better quality (frozen quickly while fresh ground is the main difference). You also then get to enjoy all the awesome steaks and roasts at the same price as your hamburger. Still more expensive than chicken, but it always will be as it takes more resources to produce beef and the animals are not quite as feed efficient.

Thomas,

My dad has always maintained that Americas, he is an immigrant, who know how to cook a great steak can get a freezer full of steak for very little money and have a blast food wise.

In my family we just never get that extra freezer. We have learned over the years how to cook better, but we still do not bake for the last five to ten minutes to finish the job.

In your opinion what is the best way to cook a rib eye?

Dave

Well said Thomas, and as I said above we do buy our beef from a friend and usually get half, lasts us all year, except for steaks and is cheaper than buying in the store

Personally I smoke them at 250 degrees with a light cherry wood smoke. Cover them with a coating of fresh diced rosemary, sea salt, black pepper, and butter. Cook in a pan to catch the drippings and spoon the drippings over your slices. Cooking a rib roast past medium should be punishable by death.

Baking is easier, but meat was meant to be cooked with wood fire in my opinion.

I spose you asked ribeye, which is the steak version of the rib roast.......if I am cooking ribeye steaks I do so on a 500 to 600 degree flat griddle with steak weights after warming the steaks to room temp on the counter....same seasoning (pepper salt butter rosemary) sear hard on both sides and sit to rest about 15 minutes. Cooking a ribeye past medium should also be punishable by death.

Thomas,

If you were ever to go retail...Omaha Steaks v Costco? Or someone else?

Dave

Never omaha steaks. They don't share with you the grade of their steaks. I've had some...and to me they seemed like choice grade (which is good) but they charge prime price.

The meat from Omaha, or Costco, or Sams, or Wal Mart, or Kroger.....all comes from the same sources for the most part. The key to beef is the grade. You want the best meat, find meat that is graded PRIME. Choice is also a good grade, select is the lowest grade. Most of what you see in a normal grocery store is choice, most of what will be in costco is choice.

If you want it to absolutely knock your socks off, find prime grade meat.

Thomas, thanks for the beef tip, appreciate quality and savings. What search words do I use to find the purveyor?

Jim, I think I know what you mean when you say the flavor of the grain fed chicken growing up was "out of this world." I bought a grain fed turkey from the health food store (had to special order at Thanksgiving). I didn't need to do anything to it, the flavor was sweet, the texture was almost like pate and cut like butter. Amazing!

The chicken served at the Virginia Diner in Smithfield VA comes close. The chicken is probably partially grain fed. Interestingly, I have been thinking about their chicken for the past few days, but then I periodically think about their chicken! I've considered calling them to ask who they buy their chicken from hoping there may be a purveyor close to Richmond.

I've also been salivating over my mother's easy, Italian seasoned "Italian baked" chicken from my childhood. Works especially well with chicken thighs.


Press chicken pieces in mixture of:

Italian Bread Crumbs and 1/2 C Parmesan cheese
(I don't think my mother brushed the chicken with oil to make the mixture cling but if it doesn't, then by all mean use oil).

Bake in 350 oven until done

The herby, parmesan encrused skin melts in your mouth!

Thomas,

As mentioned, watch Food Inc., which if I remember, shows both good and bad operations and techniques. I KNOW, you're first reaction will be, "I don't NEED to watch that film".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z9DadeSsGw

1. "The incredible growth of factory farming is due to three key factors. First, unchecked mergers and acquisitions between the largest meatpacking, poultry processing and dairy companies created an intensely consolidated landscape where a few giant agribusinesses exert tremendous pressure on livestock producers to become larger and more intensive. Second, lax environmental rules and lackluster enforcement allowed factory farms to grow to extraordinary sizes without having to properly manage the overwhelming amount of manure they create. And finally, for much of the past 15 years, misguided farm policy encouraged over-production of commodity crops such as corn and soybeans, which artificially depressed the price of livestock feed and created an indirect subsidy to factory farm operations.

2.The number of egg-laying hens on factory farms increased by nearly one quarter from 1997 to 2012, to 269 million. The number of egg-producing layer hens increased 24.8 percent from 215.7 million in 1997 to 269.3 million in 2012. Nearly half (49.3 percent) of the egg-laying hens in 2012 were in the top-five-egg producing states: Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, California and Texas. The average size of egg operations has grown by 74.2 percent over 15 years, rising from 399,000 in 1997 to more than 695,000 in 2012.

3.The number of broiler chickens on factory farms rose nearly 80 percent from 1997 to 2012, to more than 1 billion. The number of broiler chickens raised on factory farms rose 79.9 percent from 583.3 million in 1997 to 1.05 billion in 2012 — about three birds for every person in the United States. The growth in industrial broiler production added 85,000 chickens to factory farms every day over the past 15 years. The average size of U.S. broiler chicken operations rose by 5.9 percent, from 157,000 in 1997 to 166,000 birds in 2012. The average size in California and Nebraska exceeded 500,000 birds in 2012.

4.The number of hogs on factory farms increased by more than one-third, and the average farm size swelled nearly 70 percent from 1997 to 2012. The number of hogs on factory farms grew by 37.1 percent — from 46.1 million in 1997 to 63.2 million 2012 — the equivalent of adding 3,100 hogs to factory farms every day for the past 15 years. The average size of a hog factory farm increased 68.4 percent, from 3,600 hogs in 1997 to nearly 6,100 in 2012.

5.The number of beef cattle on feedlots rose 5 percent from 2002 to 2012. Feedlot size grew even as the 2012 drought reduced total cattle numbers. The number of beef cattle on operations with at least 500 head grew from 11.6 million in 2002 to 12.1 million in 2012 — adding about 157 beef cattle every day for 10 years. Texas, Nebraska and Kansas all had more than 2 million beef cattle on feedlots in 2012. The 2012 drought reduced the total number of beef cattle on feedlots nationwide, but the average feedlot size increased by 12.7 percent over five years, from 3,800 in 2007 to more than 4,300 in 2012.

6.The number of dairy cows on factory farms doubled, and the average-sized dairy factory farm increased by half, between 1997 and 2012. The number of dairy cows on factory farms rose 120.9 percent in 2012, the equivalent of adding 550 factory-farmed dairy cows every day for 15 years. The average size of dairy factory farms grew by half (49.1 percent) from 1,114 cows in 1997 to 1,661 in 2012. In nine states — Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho, Texas, Indiana, Missouri and Nevada — the average size was more than 2,000 cows in 2012.

7.The total number of livestock on the largest factory farms rose by 20 percent between 2002 and 2012. The number of livestock units on factory farms increased from 23.7 million in 2002 to 28.5 million in 2012. “Livestock units” is a way to measure different kinds of animals on the same scale based on their weight — one beef cattle is the equivalent of approximately two-thirds of a dairy cow, eight hogs or four hundred chickens.

And finally, environmental issues about Factory Farms.

8.These factory-farmed livestock produced 369 million tons of manure in 2012, about 13 times as much as the sewage produced by the entire U.S. population. This 13.8 billion cubic feet of manure is enough to fill the Dallas Cowboys stadium 133 times. Unlike sewage produced in cities, manure on factory farms does not undergo any wastewater treatment.

"Can someone please give me the definition? I have been on thousands of farms.....and they have all been owned be people who love their land, their animals, and put in work days harder than you can imagine caring for them." Hope this helps.....

I guess I have to wonder, if you've been on "thousands of farms" and NEVER heard of or driven by one of these. I have, when driving out West, both cattle and mostly pig farms and you can smell them before you see them.

Also, it's illegal, in some states to photograph feed lots or cattle/animal operations......

"Sec. 9.1(a)(2) makes it a crime to “Possess or distribute a record which produces an image or sound occurring at the animal facility” which was taken without permission of the owner.

Sec. 14.1.b makes it a crime to “Possess or distribute a record which produces an image or sound occurring at the crop operation which was” taken without permission of the owner.
from Iowa House Bill HF589, passed March 17, 2011"

So not sure why you feel you need to defend these factory farms? We all benefit, but we try not to acknowledge what happens there......

Rich

If you want to really get into it.....even prime grade isn't all the same. Nowadays since prime commands a higher price, there are a lot of dairy breeds that are fed out in feedlots to prime standards....and the meat is good, but not as good as the old english standard breeds of Angus, and Hereford, and to a lesser degree Saler and Simmental IMO. I raise black angus crossed with just a bit of Shorthorn and Saler, and the american angus association has a Certified Angus Beef program, as do other breeds that guarantee that the beef has majority angus genetics. Really the greatest beef IMO is Certified Angus Prime, maybe only second to Japanese Wagyu.

But weren't we suppose to be talking about Chicken? LOL

Rich...I've watched the film several times. It flat out lies to you.

Looks like my recipe and comments will be hijacked by your comment Rich! LOL

Interested in hearing Thomas's reply, hoping there are other producers that may not adhere to such practices and may have some solutions or better farming methods on the horizon for those producers.

I was also going to say let Thomas bring some balance to what is bias no matter how hard someone tries to write truthfully about something. Seems it may be less than a truthful attempt. I believe money comes into the picture when producing films. It would not be impossible to consider a more dramatic approach to achieve viewership and great monetary rewards.

Thomas, I can imagine the agricultural associations are steaming about this movie!

Jim S. "Bob, please don't tell me they taste like chicken..."

So they say...

Bob
http://bobsphotography.com

Just a rebuttal a bit Rich...because obviously one of us is a farmer....and the other one has watched a documentary with an agenda and thinks he knows what he is talking about.....

1. "The incredible growth of factory farming is due to three key factors. First, unchecked mergers and acquisitions between the largest meatpacking, poultry processing and dairy companies created an intensely consolidated landscape where a few giant agribusinesses exert tremendous pressure on livestock producers to become larger and more intensive.

I won't argue much here...all of Ag is getting bigger. The reality is bigger is more efficient......more efficient makes a better cheaper product, and the market demands a better cheaper product. That is what drives it....market demand. Still, in the cattle industry, 60 percent or so of the animals are produced by ranchers with 50 or fewer head. They are then sold to the big feedlots for finishing, and then slaughtered by the big guys too for the most part.

Second, lax environmental rules and lackluster enforcement allowed factory farms to grow to extraordinary sizes without having to properly manage the overwhelming amount of manure they create. And finally, for much of the past 15 years, misguided farm policy encouraged over-production of commodity crops such as corn and soybeans, which artificially depressed the price of livestock feed and created an indirect subsidy to factory farm operations.

FALSE! Lax environmental rules about manure and runoff HA!? Holy cow, please come do my state and federal water and manure reports for me. The system in our own small feedlots, which by the way are sitting idle for the past 10 years because we stopped finishing cattle.....are required to track long and maintain all of our runoff and manure to make sure that none of it enters the water supply. The manure also has to be tracked where it is spread and who it is sold to to make sure its not being stockpiled somewhere else. If we wanted to no longer go through the headache and expense of these reports....we would have to take 6 Feet of dirt from all of the pens and lagoons and basically bury it in a plastic lined pit much like a landfill so it never enters the water supply. That would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'll invite you out next time the inspectors show up....should be eye opening for you.

2.The number of egg-laying hens on factory farms increased by nearly one quarter from 1997 to 2012, to 269 million. The number of egg-producing layer hens increased 24.8 percent from 215.7 million in 1997 to 269.3 million in 2012. Nearly half (49.3 percent) of the egg-laying hens in 2012 were in the top-five-egg producing states: Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, California and Texas. The average size of egg operations has grown by 74.2 percent over 15 years, rising from 399,000 in 1997 to more than 695,000 in 2012.

Yep....the big guys are successful and get bigger, the little guys fall by the wayside. Doesn't mean the people running the big farms are bad and treat their animals poorly though.....on the contrary healthier hens produce more eggs for less money. Once again though, not an expert on chickens...I only raise my own. Again though....what is a factory farm? What does that mean?

4.The number of hogs on factory farms increased by more than one-third, and the average farm size swelled nearly 70 percent from 1997 to 2012. The number of hogs on factory farms grew by 37.1 percent — from 46.1 million in 1997 to 63.2 million 2012 — the equivalent of adding 3,100 hogs to factory farms every day for the past 15 years. The average size of a hog factory farm increased 68.4 percent, from 3,600 hogs in 1997 to nearly 6,100 in 2012.

I have a good buddy who raises hogs, I've known him since the first grade, and his farm is growing right with this trend. You should see the care they take of their animals.....its extraordinary. State of the art barns to keep the hogs comfortable no matter the weather outside. Awesome manure handling which drops and washes waste below the hogs keeping them clean and dry, even though pigs kinda like to wallow in their own wallows. Pigs can get many diseases that humans carry.....so the care to make sure the animals don't get sick is immense. No outside people, and they sanitize every time in and out of the barn. They even have special sanitized clothing and locker rooms to change in. Their death loss and sickness is almost non existent due to these measures....its impressive. Are they factory farms? Is it bad that they are incredibly diligent and successful and because of that continue to grow? Are his two boys.....who are being raised to care for the hogs the same way he was.....horrible people?

5.The number of beef cattle on feedlots rose 5 percent from 2002 to 2012. Feedlot size grew even as the 2012 drought reduced total cattle numbers. The number of beef cattle on operations with at least 500 head grew from 11.6 million in 2002 to 12.1 million in 2012 — adding about 157 beef cattle every day for 10 years. Texas, Nebraska and Kansas all had more than 2 million beef cattle on feedlots in 2012. The 2012 drought reduced the total number of beef cattle on feedlots nationwide, but the average feedlot size increased by 12.7 percent over five years, from 3,800 in 2007 to more than 4,300 in 2012.

Yes...we are still trying to build the nationwide herd back to pre-2012 levels. Yes, feedlots exist....BIG ones, and most of the animals consumed for beef go through them, but most of those animals are also brought into this world and live the first year of their life on free range under the care of a small rancher. The feedlots can feed and finish the cattle more efficiently than the small guy. Feedlots use different rations for different programs.....feedlots have licensed nutritionists that their only job is to evaluate the feed available to the lot, and craft rations for the cattle that meet all their nutritional needs. A large feedlot can feed a ration containing more parts that is more nutritionally complete than a small feedlot due to economies of scale. They have multiple vets on staff that see every animal every day, and treat and care for them whenever they need it. Heck....YOU don't even get that much medical attention. I personally know a family that owns 6 of the biggest feedlots in the beef belt...they are awesome people. Their employees, many of whom are immigrants and minorities, are taken care of and payed well. They produce probably in the neighborhood of 3 to 400,000 finished cattle every year....every single one of them cared for to the best of their abilities. What is wrong with that? Do you think the animals care that the people that own them own lost more of them....or are they more concerned about the fact that their water is clean, their feed is delicious and nutritious and there whenever they want to eat, they are dry and comfortable and have plenty of space to move? These are cows, not people, they don't care that it stinks. And....these large feedlots are under the constant scrutiny of regulations to make sure their environmental footprint is as small as possible. The cost to meet those regulations of manure storage, etc.....is staggering. One of the main reasons that things continue to consolidate is all the regulations are harder for the small guy to comply with, while the big guy can just hire and person to take care of it. The three young boys and young girl that are part of the family that owns the operation are starting at the bottom, learning to ride pens and feed and read cattle.....so that when it comes time for them to step into management rolls they know exactly what each moving piece of the business does. The pressure on them is immense....and I doubt they crack under it because they know how to work hard.

8.These factory-farmed livestock produced 369 million tons of manure in 2012, about 13 times as much as the sewage produced by the entire U.S. population. This 13.8 billion cubic feet of manure is enough to fill the Dallas Cowboys stadium 133 times. Unlike sewage produced in cities, manure on factory farms does not undergo any wastewater treatment.

Of course it doesn't go under wastewater treatment because the manure runoff isn't allowed to go back into streams like human waste does. DUH. Manure is composted and then spread on fields as fertilizer.

And trust me, if the scale of filling dallas cowboys stadium 133 times with poo blows your mind...you have no CLUE how much food it takes to feed this country. Everything we do is at scale....everything.



By your definition Frank I AM a factory farm....but I am a good person, and my animals are healthy, happy, and well cared for. The crops we raise are safe, nutritious, and the highest quality we know how to deliver. I don't abuse the animals......I care for them...24/7/365. I cancelled a trip to vegas with my wife on our 10th anniversary because a storm was possible and I didn't want to leave my father in law alone with the cattle in case he needed help. THIS IS MY LIFE! To insinuate that what I do is wrong just means you are clearly out of touch with what agriculture is.

Yes...feedlots stink.....so? And yes, there are laws on the books against photographing feedlots and crop operations without permission of the owner because activists were sneaking into feedlots and farms without permission....that is wrong. Its private property....same as your backyard. Those animals are those peoples livelihoods, they are their hard earned dollars.....people shouldn't screw with them. It puts everyone in a strange situation having to confront someone sneaking through your feedyard. If you want to learn and photograph, call them! Stop by the front office....I bet they would love to show you around.

Want to see a Factory farm result Google Decoder egg recall. These guy ran factory farms not far from where I live. Remember the 2010 egg recall? These were the ones responsible for it and had to recall 500 million eggs. They were sentenced to 3 months 8n Fed custody.

Together he and his son controlled 35.6 million hens. One such place has 10 buildings housing 9 million hens this is factory farming and what modern egg production has come to.

Now in defence of Thomas, his practices of beef production are spot on and I would not hesitate to buy his Angus.

One or two bad apples can spoil the bunch here, and movies like food Inc like to present only the bad practice while pushing for organic food. Truth of the matter is we would not has the cities and population we have today were it not for modern farming. Organic could not sustain the population and many would starve to death by being unable to aquire it or afford it.

I don't agree with some livestock production but we need it to survive.

Thomas,

My local butcher has prime for $25.99 per pound. Costco seems to have choice, or they would say prime, for $26.66 per pound.

No brainer.

Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxoAm1YTB3E Tour of a hog barn.

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/cattle-feedlot-visit A vegan visiting a feedlot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v761DILatzg Dairy farm tour!

Thomas,

Funny, a few posts above, you NEVER even KNEW there were factory farms and now, YOU ARE ONE? Activists taking images of farm animals being mistreated, is the NUMBER ONE REASON that animals are being better taken care of, on these huge farms! And people like Temple Grandin come to mind. Another great Doc film.

And manure spills, happen enough that the USDA has this page:

https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2013/mar/manure

OR this from Wisconsin:

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/manure-spilling-and-seeping-wisconsins-waterways-and-wells

I'm NOT saying YOU aren't do things right, but I am saying the industry is capable of doing things for profits, before people. Whether it's Prime Ribs or Smart phones, profit is KING and as ALWAYS, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.........

Rich

I know what YOU think a factory farm is....my point being that the term is not used in agriculture circles. "Factory Farm" is a term made up by activists to make farmers sound uncaring and horrible.

Sure there are spills of manure runoff. Please name me ANY industry that never has accidents based on natural disasters. When you do have a spill on your farm, you are required to clean it at your expense to the standards and tests of the USDA. What more would you want?

Again Rich.....if you wanted to get information about painting would you ask a painter or would you ask someone who watched a documentary about painting.

Clearly I know more about Rembrandt after watching a BBC special than Rembrandt knew about himself.

I could not resist.

Dave

Bonfire see and to me egg batteries and cage laying seem a bit.....under what our standards should be. But then again, I am not part of the industry, I don't know the animals, I don't know really what goes all into it....so I try not to comment.

I should learn.

There is no part of the beef or dairy industry I am ashamed of though. None.

Thomas,

Maybe Corporate Farms is more to your taste? GIANT FARMS??? What I call and you describe, really doesn't matter, does it. The point being made here is that these "things" are gobbling up REAL family owned farms, like yours and cutting corners when they can get away with it, and then possibly fined and profits roll on.

Factory Farms is a term to point out issues, ON FACTORY FARMS! Not yours or other family farms.

Manure spills happen for man made reasons too.

Rich

Our operation runs on the remnants of many small farms that have went out of business and been purchased. Land was bought from 2 in the past year. They were mismanaging the land and not making a profit.....we will turn that around and get bigger. How is that a problem? BIG DOESN'T MEAN BAD! Are my 2 boys and 2 girls who are going to have the opportunity to run this someday bad people because our operation is legally a corporation (with owners all being family....as are 98% of all farms in the USA)? Yes...we are absolutely focused on profit....its kinda how we make the money to live. We can't live without profit. Our operation BIG.....does that make us bad people who don't care for our animals? Excuse the language but its all manure.

Please list the "factory farms" you know personally that circumvent regulations because they are not worried about fines and only care about profit. Tell us all what they are doing wrong, be specific. ......you can't....you don't know them. You don't even know the regulations you think they are getting around. You are NOT a farmer. You are not in agriculture. I AM. I am the very face of the system you claim to hate, and I feed you. Face it, the grocery store doesn't exist without me and my family and hundreds of thousands of others like us.......and you don't exist without the grocery store. 2% of us feed the other 98%. That is a fact. You want to change how its done.....there is land for sale up the road....buy it and put your money where your mouth is. Do it better.

I would list the number of people I know that work hard to do it right and provide a safe nutritious product to the end consumer......but it would probably break the forum.

.....darn discussion always gets closed whenever I really start to kick butt!