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David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Eye Strain, Computer Monitor, Disclaimer

My eyes are in very good shape, but my eye pressure has been rising since 2014.

I am not having a problem with my eyes, but I want to know more about what is going on. In my studies, the lens is pulled by one muscle as another relaxes. Then the lens is relaxed as the opposite pull and relaxation happen to the muscles and ligaments. A study I found states that looking at cellphones ups eye pressure quickly, and more so if the room is dark.

Which led me to a simple conclusion, I needed to for the first time turn up my screen brightness. And my eyes now have stopped straining so much.

Another study found that the fluid in the eyes drain through a "mesh", but the drainage is uneven through the mesh. Near the inner wall, which is muscle for the lens, the drainage is lessened. Higher eye pressures often have to do with eye drainage through the mesh or sponge like material.

With all that in mind, upping the brightness might relax the inner wall/muscles of the eye relieving some of the strain and pressure. Time will tell.

Now what does this have to do with many of you?

Well for the first time I turned the lights up. I am not currently in production and can now see what our potential clients commonly would see.

BRIGHT!!

So I added a disclaimer to my bio and about.


*Special note, these images on your back lit monitor will appear bright. My images are printed on a tamer reflective surface designed for your home or office.

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VIVA Anderson

10 Days Ago

Interesting,intelligent,useful,kind advice.
Take it from me with MD causing havoc.
Thanks.

 
 

Mike Savad

10 Days Ago

eye strain will be caused by having a large monitor, with tiny words. the words have to get larger... like right now, no matter what i do win 10 wants teeny tiny system fonts that i can't easily change.

brightness should not be too bright, that causes eye strain. get a calibrator and make sure its all set right.

if the room is too dark and your looking at the screen, or sitting too close, or your simply getting older.

blue blockers in glasses are now a thing. the screens emit a blue light of some kind and its supposed to be bad for your eyes.

it might be that your screen is going, and or if you have a fluorescent screen, those bulbs do go after a while.

if you make things that have a lot of solid shapes and contrasting or bright intense colors, that will give you eye strain. usually making the screen brighter, will cause more eye strain, not fix it, unless it was so low you couldn't see things. also adjust the contrast, that makes a difference as well.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

David King

10 Days Ago

Eye strain has become quite a problem for me, but using a computer all day is how I make my living, I just might go blind by the time I retire.

 

Mike Savad

10 Days Ago

what also does it to me is having a monitor to the side of my eye, and the screen is white.. too much light. i do have a light over my head making the room brighter, which helps. but then the light is in my eyes, so i wear a hat. i've worn through like 4 of them so far.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mario Carta

10 Days Ago

I used to have 20/20 vision, not any more thanks to the aging process. Things like computers and cell phones all make it worse so I spend less time on the computer when possible.

All I have to worry about now is the welding arc hurting my eyes and it does, I can dial up the protection on my helmet which darkens automatically in a split second once it senses the arc but still I end up with sore and watery eyes for a while.

If it's not one thing it's another, my shoulders are hurting now also due to metal sculpting and using repoussé techniques, seems the hammering of metal on an anvil radiates back to my shoulders,neck and back.

I will just keep on doing what I want until I just can't do it any more.

I need to get new glasses as well, I wish they made a lens that doesn't scratch so easy or fog up!

What do I have to look forward to? just another birthday in a few days that will turn the clock on 58 to 59........ oh well, such is life. :-)

 

Mike Savad

10 Days Ago

make sure not to wear contacts with a welder, i heard they can fuse to your eyes. not sure if that's still true though

if you get Trivex with a Crizal coating, those are pretty durable, otherwise get glass if its not that heavy. fog is impossible to avoid, you need those glasses the tv show stars wear. the ones that have no lenses and are just frames.

i have to use bifocals now, i couldn't see my phone screen, or check my camera to see if it was sharp. and remember what part of the lens to look through is annoying at times. especially the getting used to it part, as there is a distortion between distance and close up. it also jacked the price up, way up for those things.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mario Carta

10 Days Ago

Mike I spent over $500 on my last pair of progressive glasses with those some of the coatings you mention and I have been using an old pair of cheap $14 readers since the progressive lens got scratched. I really hate the plastic lens, I will try to get glass next time and will go for bifocals with no lines but will the ditch the progressives. They took for ever to get used to.

 

Don Northup

10 Days Ago

Gunnar is one of the most popular providers for blue light blocking glasses for image and graphics professionals. Most definitely reduces I strain and studies say they help you fall asleep easier after a long day at the work station.

https://gunnar.com/lens-technology/

https://gunnar.com/amber-vs-crystalline/

Going to be difficult to not see a color shift when editing with the Amber lenses. The Crystalline lenses block all UV but not much blue light. The Amber lenses block much more blue and the outdoor blocks a ton. They do prescription lenses as well.

I use a pair of blue blockers with amber lenses in between edits. I also use f.lux on all my screens and disable it when editing. If I am not wearing the blue blockers f.lux is on.

https://justgetflux.com/

I used to do all of my work in a darkish room but a year or so ago I cranked the lighting up. Behind my screens, behind me, and overhead and that does do a lot of good to reduce eye strain. Not too much, but just enough. Just gotta be careful where the lighting is positioned so no glare or reflection is introduced. As far as my screens go, I keep them relatively bright, but not so bright they blow me out of my chair.

Not so sure about the disclaimer. Personally, I avoid disclaimers if at all possible.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

My eyes are burning right this minute. I am going to have to figure out how to dim this screen...on my TV.

 

Mike Savad

10 Days Ago

i paid $800 with a discount, and i'm not great with cleaning them. so far a tiny little scratch. crizal is more than a simple AR coating, it creates an almost shell like substance on the lens.

i used varliux, the latest, most expensive, version. they transition less. the warp bubble doesn't distort as much. i still get a bit woozy now and then when i look through it the wrong way.



what else causes eye strain are screens that are dirty, or reflective.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Joy McKenzie

10 Days Ago

Dave, I think putting that disclaimer in may also put the seed of doubt into some buyer's minds. Buyers want to believe that what they see is what they will get. Reading that disclaimer is just confusing. I've never seen anything like that on the internet... maybe I've seen something similar in a printed catalog, stating that colors may vary slightly from what is shown. I always think, why can't they just take good, true color, pictures for the catalog? They should be professional about it.

I know what you mean, but frankly my eyes glazed over reading that disclaimer. I think it asks more questions, rather than gives people answers, imho.

 

Peter Chilelli

10 Days Ago

Eye pressure tends to rise with age and can actually be a serious problem not at all related to computer eye strain. A couple years ago my regular eye exam showed quite an increase in pressure compared to just 2 years prior ( I'm 59 yrs old). The examiner sent me to a specialist who was less alarmed by the pressure readings than he was by another anomaly he discovered with my retina during his tests. On to a retina specialist, who found a partially detached retina which left untreated would have led to permanent blindness in my right eye. A laser procedure sealed the tear and I have experienced less eye irritation and strain since. I did tell all of the Doc's that I spend several hours a day at a computer screen working on my art/photos. To a man (and one woman) they all said the key to reducing screen strain is to take constant breaks looking away from a screen and focus on something in the distance while doing so.

Just my 2 sense...

 

RD Erickson

10 Days Ago

I knew I had read about turning off your electronics before sleep - https://www.sleep.org/articles/ways-technology-affects-sleep/

 

David King

10 Days Ago

I'm considering adding the disclaimer "This art inappropriate for people with good taste".

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Peter,

Your eye doctors that heard of your computer usage, did you tell them you significantly dim your screen because you are an artist/photographer?

If you left that out, you do not have an answer from them.

Dave

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

DK,

Interesting, it 'is' inappropriate? Not that I want the thank you for a good catch. LOL

Dave

 

David King

10 Days Ago

I don't know DB, I'm just feeling especially self-deprecative this morning....restless too. I am so ready for winter to be over!!!!

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201904/

Skip the test parameters and read the conclusion.

We as digital artists are dimming our screens. Usually.

Pressure often can build up if the mesh that allows eye fluid drainage slightly backs up. That mesh has an uneven drainage. The part of the mesh attached to the muscles for the lens allows for less drainage. Again I was straining that muscle with a dimly lit screen. I have no other eye problems.

Dave

BTW, I am not sure proper testing for computer monitors was done earlier by researchers. Medical people and websites have information even before decent research is done....sometimes.

 

Don Northup

10 Days Ago

I think Peter made a great point. While I use blue light blockers and f.lux I have also been taking breaks and focusing on distant objects for many years. That "technique" to reduce eye strain has been written about by the "experts" for a long time. I can say in my experience of roughly 10 hours a day on two screens over the past 15 years, it definitely helps.

Cheers

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Don,

It is common advice. There is no research supporting it or dismissing it.

It is also common sense.

But it is not the problem of digital artists using dimly lit screens longer term, if the eye pressure goes up. That has not been directly studied. adding Google was once known for digging up scientific research, not so much today. But I have been googling for this information and finding scat little research.

Doctors run their practice by narrowing down options in a diagnosis. Dismissing eye strain for a rising eye pressure is unstudied and premature. Yet that is the current practice.

Dave

 

Don Northup

10 Days Ago

If anyone wants to do some additional research into DES you may want to read this. Even the Abstract gets a bit technical. The PDF is 10 pages.

BMJ Open Ophthalmology - Digital eye strain: prevalence, measurement and amelioration

School of Life and Health Sciences, Aston University, Birmingham, UK

https://bmjophth.bmj.com/content/3/1/e000146

If that's not enough to satisfy your appetite, check out a few of the 106 referenced links.

 

Judy Kay

10 Days Ago

I got my first progressive glasses 2 years ago. I cannot use them on the Mac, I have to use regular reading glasses for it and its never really perfect,, I think its causing eye issues, My vision seems blurrier, also floaters, Blue light is another factor causing problems with eyesight and sleep issues too reportedly, Manufacturers, IMO should build into the hardwire software filters that will guard against the damaging effects (and not cause discrepancies involving photo editing in the meantime). Most people are not going to download protective filters ,,,I read an article recently stating that young people are starting to have eyesight equivalent to that of a 80 year old due to so much computer and phone use, I can only imagine how the hearing must be affected based on the sound volume I have noted from neighboring cars , I imagine the same holds true with those listening through headphones, ,

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Don,

Read the abstract, zero research on the long term effects of eye strain on eye pressure. Not a single word on the topic.

That is not the goal of any of that research. It is more on eye strain, dry eye, blue light, and not much else. We get that. It is also much older research into said topics.

The research I linked just above is on topic. It is a lone report so it seems. My linked research is dated 2018.

Dave

Have now scanned the Conclusion and the references, not on the topic of eye pressure at all.

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Don Northup

10 Days Ago

LOL...Bigtime. It's actually a 2018 report and at least 20 of the articles and reports linked are 2016, at least 17 are from 2017, and at least 7 are from 2018. That's a lot of recent science.

The title of your thread is Eye Strain, Computer Monitor.. That is one of the better recent studies that has been done on eye strain. Many of the reference links included are fantastic

Most of the 106 articles linked below it were written by Ophthalmology, Optometry, Biology, Neuroscience and other industry professionals.

Obviously, you didn't care to read it because it covers...

Symptoms and prevalence

Measuring DES

Critical flicker–fusion frequency

Blinking and squinting

Blink rate and proportion of incomplete blinks for various hard copy text and electronic reading conditions, as reported by Argilés et al 43

Accommodative effects

Pupillary light reflex and size

Aggravating factors and management of DES

Management of dry eye

Refractive error and presbyopia

Accommodation and vergence anomalies

Blue light

Conclusions

And that's just in the report, not what's included in the 106 articles, reports, and studies.

I get it. You are worrying about pressure and trying to mitigate that with a brighter screen which *sorta* goes against what many experts say.

The only time I do not instantly get more noticeable eye strain with bright monitors is when I have my workspace well lit.

I think someone reading your topic may be interested in overall eye strain research and the findings. I didn't realize you are not concerned with the majority of the aspects that cause eye strain.

Cheers

 

Don Northup

7 Days Ago

Excerpts from The Vision Council

https://www.thevisioncouncil.org/content/digital-eye-strain
-----------------------------------------

Digital Eye Strain

With an increase in digital technology, many individuals suffer from physical discomfort after screen use for longer than two hours at a time. The Vision Council refers to this collection of symptoms as digital eye strain.

About 80 percent of American adults report using digital devices for more than two hours per day with nearly 67 percent using two or more devices simultaneously, and 59 percent report experiencing symptoms of digital eye strain.

WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON ADULTS?

Americans report experiencing the following symptoms of digital eye strain:

32.4 percent report experiencing eye strain
27.2 percent report experiencing dry eyes
27.7 percent report experiencing headaches
27.9 percent report experiencing blurred vision
35 percent report experiencing neck and shoulder pain

-----------------------------------

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ALLEVIATE DIGITAL EYE STRAIN?

Eyewear is available with lenses featuring magnification, plus anti-reflective and blue light-filtering capabilities, as well as select contact lenses, to help reduce the symptoms of digital eye strain.

-----------------------------------------

Cheers

@ DK & Chuck, yup....just listing some of the common eye strain symptoms. Was responding to DB's earlier comments.

 

Joseph Baril

6 Days Ago

A 32" LED TV makes the perfect VGA monitor.

 

James Ribniker

6 Days Ago

If you are doing your own printing you will want your monitor brightness at a level that will match your printer. If your monitor is too bright, your prints will be darker than what you see on your monitor. One solution to this is having a dual monitor setup with one used for color balance and one used for editing.

Also, all the lights in my home are 5000K LED.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

James,

What is 5000k LED? I already have Day Light LED bulbs.

You have found what I believe is my problem, I was keeping my monitor dimmed a great deal for what you are discussing. Most of us here are very experienced and know that reflected light of a print is much less than projected light of a monitor. I have turned the monitor brightness up, since I am producing less these days.

Dave

 

Chuck De La Rosa

6 Days Ago

David, he's referring to the Kelvin scale.

http://www.westinghouselighting.com/color-temperature.aspx

Screen calibration with a hardware tool takes into account the ambient lighting. It also helps you set the correct brightness. You can soft proof with an ICC profile for the printer. David, unless you are making your own prints, you don't need to be concerned about all this.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

Chuck,

He is referring to bulbs in the house, so I am asking is 5000k a day light bulb?

Chuck I am self publishing. I am responsible for how the prints come out. Even if they are sold by FAA. But as I am saying, I am not producing as much this year, so I have turned my monitor up.

Dave

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

Yes, it is.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/color-matching/what-is-d50-for-graphic-arts-printing

"What is the difference between D50 and D65?

As we mentioned earlier, D50 is not considered a standard daylight illuminant, but is nonetheless used widely in graphic arts and printing. Although both D50 and D65 are considered natural daylight simulators, there are some significant differences when it comes to the spectrum as well as color point.

Most modern LCD monitors are calibrated to D65, so the right swatch (above) should appear as pure "white" - while the D50 whitepoint would be calibrated to the left swatch (above)."

Note: The above also applies to LED monitors as well.

That said my monitors are calibrated to D65, my 135W studio bulbs are 5500K, my softbox is around 6000K, most of the LED lighting I have in my home is a soft and warm 2700K, and I have printer profiles that not only account for the paper type but also the type of lighting the print will be viewed in. Last but not least, my aquarium lighting can run as high as 10-18K. :)

Many standard print viewers are D50.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/458880-REG/GTI_PDV_1E_Desktop_Print_Viewer_PDV_1E.html

But Pantone and many others make D65 viewers.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1256025-REG/pantone_p3d65840_3_light_booth_d65.html

Some people may find 5000K a little too warm for their living spaces and some may find 6500 a little too cool. Chuck put the scale on the board earlier.

Adjustable color temperature lamps like this one can be useful...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119531-REG/fiilex_flxv071_v70_led_color_viewing.html

Or you can pay the big money and get an adjustable viewing station...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1325323-REG/just_normlicht_85712_just_daylight_6500_proindustry.html

CRI rating can also come into play with color critical work.

https://www.topbulb.com/color-rendering-index

@Joseph

While a 32" TV may be fine for viewing in some instances they are usually not optimal for critical editing duties.

 

Chuck De La Rosa

6 Days Ago

David, look at the chart in the link. It's not just about bulbs. The physics applies to all light, regardless of source. It answers your question.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

Chuck,

Got you, yes I was very careful early on to place daylight bulbs in the living room/dining room of my work area. I work at a desk.

I have that down.

The monitor though was dimmed to work the images as reflected light.

Dave

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

When I do a major printing project I usually view the output with three different temp bulbs using cheap pole lamps I slide into my space. I should break down and buy a couple of those V70's or similar that B&H sells.

Not everyone uses 5K lighting in their homes so it's nice to see what your stuff looks light under different conditions.

If you are trying to do specific color matching for other types of work then obviously that does not apply. Many times I will bring my prints out to the porch to check them under real daylight as well.

 

Chuck De La Rosa

6 Days Ago

Taking them outside is what I used to do when I was doing a lot of my own printing.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

Eye strain???

Dave

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

Has nothing to do with eye strain.

If you are selling prints to someone that has a lot of natural light in the viewing area it's an easy way to see what they see and to check your own work. If you are printing for yourself the same applies.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

Don,

We all know that. We are selling here without knowing the buyers.

It is not on topic. Can we get back to the topic?

Dave

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

Still on your topic...

"Chuck,

He is referring to bulbs in the house, so I am asking is 5000k a day light bulb?

Chuck I am self publishing. I am responsible for how the prints come out. Even if they are sold by FAA...

Dave"

"We all know that. We are selling here without knowing the buyers.

Dave"

...and we can assume many buyers may have some natural light in the space they are viewing. In fact, we don't know if they have natural lighting, soft warm lighting, daylighting, or cool lighting. That's why I mentioned it's sometimes nice to view your stuff under many different conditions, including natural light.


 

Dominique Derenne

6 Days Ago

Very Helpful. Thank you all for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience.

 

David Bridburg

6 Days Ago

Don,

I make art to enjoy myself. Not get wound up endlessly in anxiety about every aspect of it.

Have a good time with things. Life is short.

Dave

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

No anxiety here...

Golfing, gardening, some photo shoots, and making art are a few of my most enjoyable and relaxing things to do.

That said, learning a few tricks of the trade is not an "endless anxiety" process. Much comes gradually over a period of many years, almost 17 years for myself.

Maybe you should consider something like this... :)

https://www.onnit.com/new-mood/

 

Chuck De La Rosa

6 Days Ago

It's not anxiety for me either. It's a pleasure and a lot of fun. In my case my technical background and fascination with physics and technology is why I've learned how to do most of this. My desire for simplicity has tempered all that and I have most of my personal prints done by a 3rd party. My sales are strictly through FAA. That said I still work to keep the technical aspects of my work as high of a quality as I can.

EDIT: I enjoy a nice amber or barrel aged beer now and again to relax...

 

Don Northup

6 Days Ago

Chuck,

Me too. I came from a technical background in both training and work experience. The technical stuff can be fun at times, no doubt. I got into "perfect" color and contrast decades ago on the job and color has always been a thing for me, as has the technical side of production.

 

David Bridburg

5 Days Ago

I do not come from a technical background. I do have a two year ASME. I have also worked in corporate computer rooms.

My four year is art. Art is about loosening up. Not locking down on the technical.

Besides knowing plenty of doctors, tightening up on the technicals is not what works for them either. Counter intuitive as that may seem. Since they have spent years in textbooks. The textbook is not the patient. Hardly.

As my dad used to say, "at 55 he stopped worrying about his golf game, and his golf game got a lot better".

The technicals are not the art.

Nor much medical info. Which is an odd reality in life.

But the technicals are often a sales job. Which is still an even more odd thing about our culture. It is the false pretending of the salesman that if he has the technicals he is an authority selling a valuable product.

It is like asking a great photographer while looking at his exhibit, "you must have a great camera to do this"? I doubt he wants to read off the specs of the camera he uses.

It is like using the latest PC, and saying I have a 5 TB hard drive. It does not change anything. Does it?

Dave

 

Don Northup

5 Days Ago

I think you may have convinced yourself the one and the only way is your way, the one and only fact is your fact, and the only proper way to do things is the way you do things. Technically speaking, I think this thread has moved into narcissistic territory if it wasn't there already.

Have a great non-technical one!







 

David Bridburg

5 Days Ago

I have never been called a narcissist, but that is the pop culture cliche of the day.

Back to eye strain.

Dave

 

Don Northup

5 Days Ago

LOL, I am definitely not a pop culture guy...old school is more like it. Was not aware that narcissist is the pop culture cliche of the day.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Ok, back to eye strain. Unfortunately, one of my nieces was playing with my blue light blocking glasses and has misplaced them somewhere in the house...can't find them anywhere. Bummer.

I'm gonna need to order a new pair. Did you know that 96% of Gunnar glasses wearers report reduced eye strain?

I'm having a hard time deciding on the style though as well as picking the lens tint.

I think I may go with the Liquet (BPF 35) lenses instead of the Amber (BPF 60) or Crystalline (BPF 10).

Darn those pesky technicals...



 

David Bridburg

5 Days Ago

Don,

They have now gone and sold you twice.

LOL

Dave

PS, we are discussing eye strain, but I am actually concerned with eye pressure as I said in the OP. We can discuss both.

 

Don Northup

5 Days Ago

Smoking weed lowers eye pressure but has a relatively short duration of action. But then again it may enhance your creativity. Something tells me you are not a gonja man though. How's that for pop culture? Or is it old school?

 

David Bridburg

5 Days Ago

I do not toke. Have not since age 21. No drink. No cigarettes.

Only two political bets with a kid at work. All told I will take $200 off him in sucker bets. He has it coming. He is 6' 5" so I am not picking on him. Other than verbally.

I have to wait three months for another reading of the pressure.

Dave

 

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