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Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Time For Self Criticism...soooo Third Grade

I just deleted a bunch of work that looked "so third grade!" That's my husby's words for work that looks...well like third grade work. LOL

Do you find that some of your earlier works lack...professionalism or are you ever self critical or do you rely on others for your self worth as an artist? I'm just curious.


Thank you for your responses, be gentle on yourself and others if you should wish to do so. This isn't private. Thank you. I provided a really crappy work by me for an image not well done. The real painting is equally lousy in my opinion...lol.

If it wasn't one of my "Best sellers," I would delete it too.

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David King

10 Days Ago

I don't remember what my art looked like in 3rd grade, for all I know all I know all my current work is 3rd grade...maybe 4th. lol

 

Ronald Walker

10 Days Ago

"So third grade", I know that is something of a put down but I must say there are many things about art produced at that age that are commendable.

 

JC Findley

10 Days Ago

Listen to anyone else for critique on what I produce? Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttt HECK no!

If I had listened to my wife early on about my art I probably would never have sold a thing. Yes, I like her approval but I ignore it when she is not impressed.

Deleting old work? I will do it if I look at it and I think, this does not at all reflect what I want to show as my work but it has been five years since I have done that and it was less than five images at that. The nice thing about having a portfolio as large as mine is I can bury the snot out of anything I think might be controversial or something that is just OK. IMO, your portfolio is large enough to do that with too. Image X isn't the end all be all but still, it might have a market? I put it around spot 3500. You could put it around spot 450. What that does is puts it in a spot NO ONE will see unless they search for that specific thing and if they are looking for that, well, they might just buy it. Heck, they might even buy three large ones and give you a good pay day.

 

Phyllis Beiser

10 Days Ago

Lisa, I have deleted a few of my naive works. I have left several though because they sell every now and then. Seems that there are buyers who like that quality in a painting. It is also good ( IMO) encouragement for myself and others like myself who are still in the learning process to look back and see how far we have traveled in our journey. :)

 

Why not just make a Collection/Gallery and title it "3RD Grade Style"?

Lots of 3rd grade style sells around here! ;-p

And older work seems to get first glance too.

For my older stuff that I don't care for, and has a title attached to it that I can use, I stuff away in a locked collection for possible remastering of the idea.

 

David King

10 Days Ago

"Why not just make a Collection/Gallery and title it 3RD Grade Style? "

Great idea! I'll change my account name to "3rd Grade Style Art". It'll be the new art world sensation!

 

Dave Dilli

10 Days Ago

I am sometimes surprised when I sell photos that I do not think is my best work- some of them sell multiple times. So I use my own judgment of whether something is "website worthy!" and while I do ask for opinions from others, I do not take them too seriously...

 

Nikolyn McDonald

10 Days Ago

JC said, " . . . I put it around spot 3500. You could put it around spot 450. What that does is puts it in a spot NO ONE will see unless they search for that specific thing and if they are looking for that, well, they might just buy it. Heck, they might even buy three large ones and give you a good pay day. "

Just FYI, JC . . .

I believe someone said relatively recently that viewers on at least some mobile phones actually come in at the end of our images and view them backwards. I have always done as you do and put ones I don't really want seen for one reason or another at the back . . . but maybe that no longer works?

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Laughing at all the responses!

A woman at work gave me a list of seven paintings that she wanted. She had printed in neat hand writing on her list after the painting's title, canvas or framed. She wanted me to bring these to work and had no idea that I don't stock these works at home. LOL

It's kind of like the lady who thought I made my own shower curtains. I'm not laughing at my customer as both are very intelligent people, just thought it was a little humorous.

Anyhoo, as I looked at my website for the works she listed, I noticed that several of them wouldn't even print...due to the fact that when I started this journey, I wasn't a digital artist yet.

Over the years, I've learned to create work on Adobe, but I use my real paintings as a beginning. This friend thought that some of my added filters were parts of my genius hand at work. Thusly, I had to explain to her that my website has several manufacturing companies that work to produce my image on product lines and that I'm as much a digital artist as a painter. She seemed shocked at that.

The good news is that I have two of the paintings she listed. One that I'm ready to give away for free and the other is in a gallery for thousands of dollars. I will be able to give her one of my works. She has already bought from one of my galleries.

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Lisa,

After my first concepts, I had a development phase looking into Photoshop tools and options. Some of that work, I needed better PD images. So last year, I went into three of my galleries and changed out 26 images with my much better mix of ideas now as a more established artist. Those three galleries now hold together much better.

Dave

Forgot your question rather quickly, other people have opinions? What a waste of time for them.

 

David Manlove

10 Days Ago

You said: "If it wasn't one of my 'Best sellers,' I would delete it too."

Are you being sarcastic with this statement? I hope not. If it really is one of your best sellers, what does that tell you? That should be a real measure of it's worth, shouldn't it? Obviously your buyers like it. I do too.

As an artist I am my own worst critic, yet I always want another opinion. And, sometimes I get so caught up in what I'm doing (thinking it's cool), I upload it and later think it's garbage.

As for "3rd grade." Sometimes such art is quite delightful, and as others have said here, it has it's merit.

Just my humble opinion.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Phyllis, did you ever have a naïve work?!?! If so, thank you for the inspiration. I don't think I'm ever going to reach your level of genius.

Glenn, you said it best when you wrote this: "For my older stuff that I don't care for, and has a title attached to it that I can use, I stuff away in a locked collection for possible remastering of the idea." I love that.

Ronald, I knew you were going to say that. I know of two genius artists in the third grade or younger that produced work better than most graduate art students. That said...I don't know what to say...maybe I should give up...ROFL.


On that note Ronald, I produced a "You Tube" tutorial on creating a valentine of roses. A lady posted pictures of her three year old neice who is almost four of what she got from my tutorial...and it was, no shit! better than mine. That little lady's roses were done to perfection along with her rose leaves. I AM hoping her aunt helped some.

 

I see SO many pieces of art sell that I consider "so third grade". But they are mainstream! The general buying public seem to prefer simplified art.

There are some works that I have done and think they are awesome pieces of art, but haven't sold a single print.

Then there are some works that I think are "just okay", but they sell.

So, I rarely delete my images here. You can't anticipate what a buyer might want.

I do delete the ones that might make me cringe :)

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

David M., I will never measure my art by what sells.

A great question for the forum is just that. right? If it's Thomas ...what's his name with all the farm equipment, sunsets and tornado...I get it, but for the most part, I think I sell myself more than any art. Yeah, no...it's not the art, I'm sure...at least not yet in my case.


Thomas Zimmerman...that's whos images I was thinking about. His sunsets always stick out in my mind for some reason.

Paintings in print take a different skill set because not only do you have to be masterful on canvas, and that is like competing with mother nature in a sense or creations of the genius who created nature and matter. AND.. you have to master some computer skills too if you want to sell for real. It's a lot to do in a day of the painter.

 

Floyd Snyder

10 Days Ago

I can’t remember how many people have memtioned how they were so happy that they didn’t delete something that they had just considered deleting because they just sold it.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

That is true, Floyd...all up until it can't print because it's terrible. Your work is another awesome sell on this site!

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Carlin, some of mine are making me cringe. Six of the seven paintings my friend listed that she wanted to buy, I wanted to throw black paint on in anger of how awful they are to my eye.

Is that low self worth, no it isn't. I have a perfectly healthy self esteem; I've learned a lot since 2014. And I'm grateful for it too.

I've learned from this forum a great deal. Thank you art peeps.

 

Ronald Walker

10 Days Ago

Just finished a third grade class. It was a very loose activity where they are give a variety of paper and other stuff and encouraged (Not required) to make valentines. Many did make valentines of course but there were others...a group of them made masks and I heard them saying to each other "I am a demon" on their way out. That is third grade, starting to get control of skills and yet not totally emerged in being cool. Unpredictable but fun!

 

David Bridburg

10 Days Ago

Lisa,

My biggest single sale last Christmas was from a gallery I thought was never going to be liked or respected. My mother hates purple. The image was primarily purple.

Every time I thought my first four galleries I could delete, I said to myself, "other people new to my work might not want the more radical stuff. So keep these works to sell".

I have not sold out, I have explored. I am working on selling out. But I do not make any commercial art, I want higher prices than that.

Dave

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Third graders are demons in my opinion, Ronald...nothing intimidates me more than a child that age plus or minus six years. Children know when they are around me that there is no threat and they can get away with everything. The more bad they are, the more I laugh inside myself.

David B, carry on, I wish you the best in life.

 

Ronald Walker

10 Days Ago

Lisa, there are days I am in total agreement!

 

David Manlove

10 Days Ago

I find it hard to rebut your response to my opinion. Not that I don't agree in some respects, but yes, an artist's art is something very personal to them. It's what you do and how you do it that brings satisfaction, or not. And, being self-critical is a path forward, to improve and eventually master what it is you do. If it makes you happy, then mission accomplished. If not, then keep working at it until you are. Older works are bound to feel less accomplished than your latest work. I often look back and cringe at older stuff and feel as you do. On the other side, I am influenced by other's critical opinion, if given constructively. I want that. I am very happy if someone is willing to pay for my work. I certainly didn't mean to imply that that is the only measure of success or worth but it sure helps. Similar to a writer having a best selling book, or a musician hitting the top ten. Ok, I think I'm through talking myself into a hole here, hahaha. You have a great body of work I think you should be proud of.

 

Michael Hoard

10 Days Ago

Greetings Lisa, I was taken off guard you deleted your works because your husband thought it looked third grade, hum bug imo I have never allowed anyone's harsh criticism persuade me differently. In my particular instance my earlier works of art were sought after and though in retrospect I still visualize them in my mind they sold because of that moment and frequency in time.

You are aware works of art which have a non professionalism appeal to you are in fact works of art which in its raw state is a non-refined piece of creative work. Primitive works of art are in fact highly sought after. As an example what if Grand Ma Moses tossed out all of her earlier primitive paintings because they someone thought those looked 3rd gradish, did not have a professionalism appeal to them hummm. Something such as her works of art remained consistent throughout her entire career.....All of my earlier works of art were sold some $80.00 and higher but then I was a child prodigy, I placed my own value or worth of those earlier paintings. They were sought after because my earlier works of art revealed an extraordinary ability, and only one of my original oils remains in my private collection, and a few earlier drawings.

Those pieces of art which might be considered non professionalism produce a complementary prior, in-between and present of the entire spectrum of the artist, picture of all creative individuals earlier and later works of art. Personally, when it comes that time to have my first premier photographers show it will include my earlier works as seen through a 10 year old including present day as a 67 year old.

The earlier works of art which I consider the instant frequency allows us to reflect in retrospect its those earlier works which can not be replicated, duplicated because of frequency itself, it would become a facsimile, replica of sorts.... I agree with Nikolyn comment pertaining to the placement of earlier pieces further back in your gallery, at least allow a potential client to make the decision if an earlier work of art is worthy of a sale. Happy Sales Potential!!!!

 

Jason Fink

10 Days Ago

With a topic as wildly subjective as art, is there such a thing as "3rd grade" art?

https://www.shughal.com/11-ridiculously-expensive-paintings-that-will-leave-you-stunned/

I present to you numbers 6, 8 and 10.

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VIVA Anderson

10 Days Ago

Hi Lisa. Good stimulating thoughts.
Follow your intuition, Lisa...........it works.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Why not share the image that you love by telling us the name of that image, David King. We can all go and inspect.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

That's a great point, Tony...let me think on it...I would love to argue the opposition to that point, but can't find the words.


 
 

Mike Savad

10 Days Ago

i usually critique myself before i start, during and after.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

David Manlove

10 Days Ago

I think that is a great piece David King.

 

Tony Murray

10 Days Ago

Please do Lisa, I welcome an opposing view.

 

David King

10 Days Ago

Don't mind me today, I'm bored and in a mood.

I really do dislike that painting, I can't explain why, I just do.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Maybe (Mike) you could critique your nose then, someone is making in fun of you and not being very nice. Be nice to my friend, (you) and change your nose. Just kidding. Keep it, it will attract people to look at your work. They'll want to know what kind of pig you really are.

David King, that image has caught my eye many times. I love the blue in the sky taken to the grasses below. Thank you for sharing.

 

Jessica Jenney

10 Days Ago

You never know what will sell until it does. I rarely delete any of my work for that reason. OR, I replace the image with an improved version.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

I oppose your view Tony because of this Godless painting entitled: Wait for it..."Bang it OUT. "


Photography Prints

When I pass and ask God if my art mattered. I imagine The O'mighty telling me this: "No, Banging it out was your problem, you were too impatient and it showed in your sloppy work. Some people looked upon your work and felt so sorry for your mess, they complimented you...but your work never mattered a bit."


For more on Banging it OUT, you can watch me create this train wreck on You Tube. And for those of you that think abstract is easy, this is proof that banging it out might be a bad choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3uhJgHBWJc&t=16s


But check it out quick, I'm deleting it all soon. Have yourself a laugh, it's on me today. I am going snow shoeing though for therapy.

 

Brian Wallace

10 Days Ago

I'm constantly surprised by what others prefer over my own judgement. I've therefore come to the realization many years ago that the different tastes of people is something I will not argue with and I dare not trust in my judgement alone to dictate what is or isn't worth the so-called "professional" axe!

I'm not offering only one piece of art or work so, if something does not appeal to someone's taste, there are many other alternatives within my own portfolio as possible choices. Adding to that, there are many other viewers with different art tastes that may view the work. They always have the option to pass something by and view something different.

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

10 Days Ago

Lisa,
Take all your third-grade art. Start a new collection and label it "Art Brut"
The term outsider art was coined by art critic Roger Cardinal in 1972 as an English synonym for art brut, "raw art" or "rough art").

Outsider art has emerged as a successful art marketing category; an annual Outsider Art Fair has taken place in New York since 1993, and there are at least two regularly published journals dedicated to the subject.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Although I agree with you, Brian, on the so called tastes of others, why don't you trust yourself? I am going to check your art out to see why.

I trust my judgement, it hasn't failed me in life. I am only judging my art now because my image clean-up party is past due and this is a perfect day for doing a mundane project. I am finding quite a bit of humor in it as well.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Oh, I love that idea, Robert! Can I do it? Most of my originals would be a great fit and I'm having zero issues selling in my galleries on the home front.

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

10 Days Ago

Why not? Tell your admirers you do Art Brut in your sleep. Like automatic writing.
Like sleepwalking, but in your case its sleep painting. You are expressing your inner child.

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

It's like you turned all my house cleaning projects into art, thank you for the positive and constructive advice. I'll be opening up a gallery called Art Brut soon...as soon as I am done deleting the Crap art. Thank you Robert, I'm excited about the new gallery.

 

Brian Wallace

10 Days Ago

Hi Lisa... It's not necessarily that a difference of opinion means one person is wrong about the work. It means that someone may like it more than I do. "Tastes"... it's what turns the world!

 

Tony Murray

10 Days Ago

Lisa, you lose the argument because you missed my point. It has historical value. It came from your hand therefore it has value, it is part of your story. I would imagine Da Vinci threw out sketches, any idea on what those would be worth today if discovered?

 

Lisa Kaiser

10 Days Ago

Okay, I lose. I want to be done now. I'll be back in a while.

 

RD Erickson

10 Days Ago

David K - my dear wife would love Wild Autumn. I think the first 'original' oil painting she ever bought looked something like it.

Lisa - just do what JC said, bury it in the back or somewhere in the middle - I never erase anything - even if I should because one of my sales was an image I thought to take down - I never figured out why I even put it up.

 

Christopher Maxum

10 Days Ago

i think many galleries arrange work of an artist chronologically. early stuff can be interesting as everyone is learning, less skilled and improving and changing. phases of a life can be profound... innovation, subject change, alcoholism, breakdown, seperation, depression, a move to a different city or country etc. - as decoration it might be less understood. if you divide up your phases maybe you can appreciate it all in context of a life and journey.... if thats not considered irrelevant on here...

 

Joseph C Hinson

9 Days Ago

I don't delete work as long as it is in focus and looks technically good. I've sold stuff of my own that I would not hang on my own walls and I'm fine with that. Early on my FAA years, I went through a fit where I started deleting my work. I've told this story before. I came to a certain photograph and almost deleted it, but something stopped me. Very soon after that, that piece sold. I've since reloaded the other work I deleted and come to realize I may not be the best judge of my own work.

 

Floyd Snyder

9 Days Ago

"Why not just make a Collection/Gallery and title it 3RD Grade Style?"

Worked for Grandma Moses. The crude, unsophistic style that is... Some thought was very childish. Some still do.

I will continue to have the utmost faith in the buying public to be able to look at an image and decide for themselves if they want to buy it or not.

As I have said many times here, I have several images that other FAA member told me would never sell or print if they did sell. The irony was that they had already sold, printed and been delivered and were not returned.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Days Ago

The last three responses are epic. If you are a newbie reading, let it be a lesson.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Days Ago

I'm still looking at my work with a critical eye. What I've taken away from this day is that I need a good picture of my art. It's not the potential art, it's the art as it is in great lighting. A poor photo shoot ruins a lot of potentially great selling art no matter how good or bad I may be.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

9 Days Ago

Yes I constantly cull.

If I can get 3 or 4 new ones for every old one I pull I am usually doing great.

To me my body of work represents me and who I am....that changes and grows over time. There are some flawed works that will always stay, but some stuff is just....well...not me anymore.

Sure I might lose a sale here or there over the long term.....but striving for excellence will make me many more over time.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Days Ago

Thomas, thank you for posting, your idea of providing more for the ones you take away. This is food for thought.

Excellent photography is your art skill set ...for sure.

 

This discussion is closed.