Facebook - Why?

I have a desire to ease my way into FB again, however I don't feel a need to be liked there, just have a presence.

-YoPedro
Twitter@YoPedro

I don't even try to use FB for selling art, I do post my art occasionally but just in my personal feed and just to share with friends. I spend little time on FB, it's just a diversion. There are those that are good at working the groups and do get sales from them, I looked at that and I find the whole group thing to just be confusing. I do belong to a couple groups but they are small and related to my other hobby.

Yeah I got fed up with facebook. I shared my work and they posted photos in return like that was the exchange, picture for picture. Some just don't see what I do as a viable job nor artwork as a needed purchase. They don't see the person behind it and that its supporting a life.

I should mention that I have two FB accounts - one is for friends and family - the other just for art and art related friends. I hardly ever look at the friends and family one.

Long gone now, not sorry, not missed either, lol.
So repetitive, nice friends, but shallow sharing artwork everywhere.
I feel badly that some here take the great trouble to share my work
on their pages because I can't reciprocate, and am grateful,
but,
I have yet to see any benefit from it all.....am not promoting, so am
not hopeful for sales there......my choice.

you want to be everywhere, i wouldn't erase the account. it partly depends on how you present the work, the amount of non faa friends you have. if your on any groups (something i'm trying to work on). i don't get that many sales there, unless its the right piece on the right group, but i get some. however due to the politics of this year, the pages are inundated with tons of news stories, so the chances of your stuff being seen are kind of low.

and on twitter, if you want to be on top, they have a new service.... a $100 a month and you can be seen on top.... not happening for me btw.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Roy, I feel ya! I appreciate your continual shares of my work and share yours, probably not as much as I should though. When I do, people love your work! Don't give up!

I just send my posts to groups once or twice a week. I like that pace. I sent my last image to 70 groups today. One group at a time, so I limit how often I do that per week. I want to enjoy the hunt, not over do it.

The mood struck me today.

Dave

I never post to groups on Facebook. When groups are public that means your work is spamming the feed and I hate that! When people do that I unfollow them.
I post one image a day there and on my page and leave.

I don't follow other artists for marketing purposes. I also never share other artists work for marketing or tit-for-tat kinds of arrangements. There's no point to it. I followed a couple artists that did that and it just seemed like they were some kind of art clearing house after a while. I have only seen one artist do it well, and that's our own Yo Pedro. He shares his work and the work of others on Twitter and he has a really interesting stream of images that feel curated and thoughtful. Or maybe I just like what he chooses to post. :)

I built my FB following from real-life contacts and it grew organically from connections to those contacts. I started building the page years ago when it was still possible to build an organic following by sharing interesting content with your viewers and having them re-post and share. That's not really possible anymore, because Facebook has grown into its business model and its customers are the advertisers, not the users. My posts reach 5-10% of my following, maximum. That cap isn't going away.

Don't pay to boost posts on FB. If you're going to buy an ad, research similar ads done by other artists and ask them how it went. I bought one ad about 2 years ago, and I got a bunch of new followers out of it and I made a few sales that paid me back and then some - but again - things have changed at Facebook.

I never spam my artwork to groups unless it's an art group where everyone else posts as well. I do find that regularly participating and interacting in groups gets more visits to my artist page and I get more follows on weeks I'm more active on FB.

Jessica,

Those people are following the group not me. Dozens and dozens of artists post to each of those groups daily.

Most people simply unfollow the groups. But possibly remain members. Or something like that. The results are only so so.

When I say I sent out to 70 groups, there are between 20k and 180k members in each group. The reach over the last ten hours is about 2600 people. The engagement rate is approaching 100.

That is okay. Today's post was not among the more popular I have put out there.

Dave

"I never spam my artwork to groups unless it's an art group where everyone else posts as well."

Exactly Cynthia.

Facebook has lots of value as far as I'm concerned. I have reignited relationships with people who had drifted in all different directions. People who meant more than just a bit to me over the years.

I think that folks expect too much from it and get to feeling left empty because it doesn't fill in their voids the way that they hoped it would. We sometimes just poke at it and expect an immediate response. I'm not a facebook guru, and sales come from time to time. I just try to be realistic about what it is that I'm involved with.

Dave, I am talking about art groups. If I posted to 10 art groups a day and those groups are public, my friends would see all those posts in the feed.
I know because I see others post the same pic to many different groups. To me that is spamming, and I will unfollow those people.

That's what I don't like about public groups. They show up in the feed.

well a lot is expected from an artist these days so yeah much is expected when you work that hard. It takes a lot out of a life force to produce

That's another thing I don't care for with FB, I see a lot of crap that I don't want to see from "friends of friends" and the things they "like", which means whether I choose to share or not a lot of the things I "like" or that my friends "like" of mine are getting shared with a whole bunch of people I don't know or want to know. I've seen things in my feed from strangers I'm sure they'd rather just went to their friends and family, not some stranger that just went to high school with one of their friends. FB has become increasingly intrusive and out of control, just another reason I'm limiting my use of it more and more, in fact I think I should go back to not using it at all.

Jessica,

I see what you mean the notices up top.

I connect to friends by seeing them post and saying things to them. But most people are not actually following me any longer. I have 130 following.

In reality 50 people matter in total and generally I follow them, not the other way around.

FB and all SM are plastering things up for people to see. Why should artists be any different. But I have little use for following artists endlessly in my SM stuff. I have often said that.

Dave

Jessica, that killed my sharing to Facebook groups too.

I posted one and a few friends liked it so I know they saw it. I can only imagine doing a bunch a day (talk about spamming!).

For now I don't use fb for business, I just share my photos with friends, no link back to my faa account or anywhere.

Working Facebook needs to be planned out from the get-go. Let's talk about two mistakes that seem to have been made.

1) Sharing Art and Swimmimg with Other Artists - this is one of those things that will always backfire. If you were a photographer then other photographers are not your customers. They can make their own work and print it. And they will. The ideal customer is someone who is not a photographer. Same goes regardless of medium.

So hanging out with and sharing the works of other artists is not a good plan. And the one-off sale that happens from it? That is a trap. If you earn $100 from that sale but could have earned $500 by NOT using Facebook to communicate to other artists....then the money is a trick that holds you back.

2) Not Wanting to Spend Money - I do not get the sentiment that says that Facebook audience reach should be free because it once WAS free and if it is not free then down with Facebook. You can get better results with paid ads now. Better is still better even if it is not free.

If you pay $100 in ads and get $250 in profit then you made $150. If you pay zero dollars and make $40 via "free" exposure from just posting your stuff...you are not ahead just because you kept the clamp on your wallet. And if Facebook had atuck. with their old way and nobody paid and you got the same $40...you still are not better off.

If you have a machine that spits out $250 worth of gold coins out the back end every time you shove $100 worth of gold coins in the front...you don't get mad at it and throw it in the trash because it won't work it's magic when you shove nothing in the front at all. No no no. You just put the money in and collet your reward.

Now let's talk about some this has that can be done to get paid via Facebook sales...

If you look up Robert Reich on Facebook you will see someone who is a grand MASTER. He has the highest engagement of anyone in have ever seen. One technique he uses on EVERY post is the "comment hook".

At the end of every post (apparently doing this never gets old) he asks "What do you think?"

This prompts for comments. How could an artist or photographer use this?

Well, you could post something "local". A photograph or painting of a famous local landmark and ask a similar "hook" question.

So in Detroit the Joe Louis Arena is getting the wrecking ball as the Red Wings are moving to their new arena. If you were from my area you could get a good photo of it (or paint it), upload to FAA, and then post it to FB with a sentimental caption that ends with...

"When did you first see a game here? Who won?"

Now if you have a big local following, then.you will get engagement. If not, it is time to open the wallet. Anything worth doing is worth doing right and all that.

So you pay to boost the post. The idea being to get new followers. Local ones. That is the goal. (We will talk about a twist on this that will produce direct sales in a
Bit)

So you target people who like the Red Wings, make $75,000 per year or more, and own a home. After all, if you are going to spend, you might as well spend attracting people with dsposable income to buy your art who also put stuff on walls. (Something many renters do not do.)

This likely would get a good response. Depending on how good the piece is and how good the ad is at getting clicks through....you could get a sale.

But lets make it better.

Instead of asking "When did you first see a game here...." at the end of your post, go with

"Who was the last person you saw a game with here? Tag them in the comments below."

This could EASILY more than double your overall results. Because as soon as someone tags a friend, that friend gets a priority notification that will bring them back to that post. They will see that their friend tagged them. Their emotions kick in of that now bitter-sweet memoy of the last game at The Joe...now they look at your profile, they like you because how could they NOT, they look at your page and decide to follow. Maybe they even buy.

Or lets put another twist on this.....

So same piece of art for the post. You tweek the audience targeting. Same as before but, as it is August now, you narrow down the ad so it only shows to show the people who have birthdays in September and change the caption to....

"How many games did you see here? Tag someone below if they should get you this for your birthday."

Now this is a shameless promotion. But it would work. Hands down. Because wives are always asking husbands what to get them for their birthday and husbands never have a good answer when put on the spot.

So men would tag their wives as a half-joke and SOME wives would take it as a sign and buy the piece!

I come up with money making ideas like this all the time. The trick is figuring out which one to focus on and make a priority for achieving long term goals.

I share something to my page every day or so . . . sometimes a couple of things in a day, sometimes nothing for three days. I try to change it up. So I end up sharing an image that links back to my website here maybe once a week. Did that today . . . about six hours ago. I have had 32 unique visitors since then - only one New York, no Beverly Hills or Sunnyvale or any of the other known bots (and yes I know that all visits from those IP's are not necessarily bots). This is not unusual - as a matter of fact, this image has not proved that popular and I shared it late in the day (US time), so it's a bit sluggish. But I have to believe that those "real" visits count for something somewhere, if only deep in the bowels of the FAA search algorithm :)

Not sure if anybody above said this...but you need to add a lot of pertinent #hashtags....about the subject and the types of products available for FB posts to do much good...people won't find your posts without them...and make sure their viability is set to "public"....if you post a picture directly from your upload page, you can then go back and "edit" it to add #'s

Well after a very slow and reluctant start on FB I'm still hanging on in there but there doesn't seem much point to it. I feel invisible on my page, and I think it looks pretty uninviting. I try to put something up there on a regular basis (apparently FB likes regular posting)) but it doesn't work out like that. Belonging to the older age group as I do I don't have a lot of friends who use FB. A few relatives that I am now able to keep an eye on. I've unfollowed some 'friends' who flooded me with stupid political stuff and cute cat and dog videos. (I like cats and dogs as much as anyone but I don't want them cluttering up my timeline). I try to find something to post about from time to time.
I've joined a few groups and post to them every so often and I make a point of commenting on the more memorable work. There is a certain amount of communication, but these people are not buyers although I quite enjoy the sharing side of it.
So that's FB for me.
However I have been spending a lot of time reading up on and doing Pinterest and it seems to have real potential. I have acquired a whole 20 or so followers (!!!), which is more than I can say for FB. I intend to continue to put my SM efforts into Pinterest.
Is it worth joining Twitter? Or is it just another huge time waster?

Another thing - I don't understand how people can 'follow' hundreds of people. How is it possible to find time to genuinely follow so many people? Just one of the many things about SM that have me puzziling.

Maybe one should approach FB as a place to be seen and not to sell. Get your name out there, spark interest in your work and who you are. Groups are the best place for that. I am in two main groups of over 60k people. Take a long time to follow that many.

As far as getting likes who cares. Get your work in front of large audiences not individuals. This applies to instagram as well as all the other SM sites. There is no instant rewards from marketing. Be consistent on work presented and stop worrying about likes and sales on SM sites.

Stop following other artists
Stop wanting to be followed by other artists

Lesson one

Artists are not who you need to follow and to get interested in your page

I'd prefer 2 galleries or buyers, over 200 artist followers.

Go out, as your page, and follow galleries, pages that do what you take photos of or paint.

Take note of their main interests

Talk to them

Show them who you are

Stop worrying about how many followers you have, or likes for likes. Interact with potential customers. Not other sellers.

Stop just automatically sharing things

Create adverts that will fit on these pages. Interest people, don't spam them.

Abbie,

That is advice I am going to follow.

Dave

I use FB the way it was originally intended as a purely social site.

Over the years I have had a handful of sales generated but it is less than 1% of my sales.

Thank you so much Lisa for your comments. I really do appreciate your input and positivity. Right back at ya. You promote yourself successfully and much better than I do. I don't think I do a very good job personally and know I have screwed up a long the way too. LOL. I am not afraid to say that. Too funny. It's the truth. I am always learning, from brilliant people such as yourself and other associates and friends. You have a finesse, diplomacy, stunning artwork and your ideas are so cool. Love your idea of having an art show at your house. You are a masterpiece and beautiful being. Thank you dear lady for your kind words. You humble me.

Marlene: I had two social media gurus tell me that, and since I started posting more personal pics it has helped the FB algorithm and a wider audience will see my posts. So there is some truth to it. I don't do it a lot. I have also seen other artists do it and they seem to really pull in the business. Of course, they probably have the right connections, & have a marketer in their employ. I agree with your point of view too. I am happy to hear that you are having great success with your sales without posting info and pics of your personal life. I have also sold some things too that way.

Patricia: They had my CC info. I used to do promo ads on my Fan Page with limited success. This just happened to me last week. I was on my Fan Page and I clicked on something that did not look like an ad. I had not done a promotion in a while, but Facebook had my credit card info. That is: my old credit card card info. There was no cancellation button and it was at the end of July, so they were trying to make some money from me. Their system changes all the time apparently. In the old days, I had control of how much I could spend on the ad or cancel if I wanted to, before submitting. When I tried to cancel, it had charged me $48.00. I was so mad. But, it turned out, that my card had expired, so they could not charge me, ha. I got these notices on my android via the Facebook app that i needed to update my credit card info, but it went away after awhile. I ignored it, and they never got my money. Lol. I have no idea how it happened in the first place. I really don't. It was bizarre. All I can think is they tried to scam me. So be careful. I know none of this makes sense and it is hard to believe, but it did happen. I will never take out an ad on Facebook again or give them my credit card info. Sorry so long winded.

You can choose to share your posts on your FB profile page with friends, the public or whoever you choose. I keep personal info for a select group of friends only.
I make my art posts for the public. I have many followers (different from friends) on my profile page and they can only see my public posts.

I only publish my birthday for a select group of friends on Facebook,

On my art page I only post art!

Kevin if you look at my work, I very clearly market toward the Agriculture market. I found that market because I work in Agriculture daily....it is who I am. I know who these people are, what they like, what hits them in the feels if you will.....and I know that because that is who I am. Photographs that move me move others.

It isn't so much that I sought out a market to make art towards....its that my feelings are most effectively portrayed through my agriculture photography. I know my best work is in that segment. I don't find a group of people to make art for as much as I find the group of people that will be moved by my art.

It isn't all I do, but it accounts for about 90% of my sales.

To put that in Facebook terms. I know 25-60 year olds who like The Angus Beef association, artificial insemination, and NCBA (National Cattlemens Beef Association) that live from Texas to North Dakota and Montana are likely to be interested in my photographs of cattle. Facebook allows me to show that cattle photograph with a direct link to where to buy it to that exact group of people, and a few thousand of them that have otherwise never heard of me for as little as $20.

Phrase the post correctly you are going to get likes, comments, and shares, and pretty easily your post will grace the screens and phones of 40 to 50 thousand people for $20. One sale, and that would be a conversion rate of only .002%, and likely you have gotten back 3 to 5 times your investment, all while increasing your footprint of people who like your page.. Let's just say that often I do better than .002% conversion rate.

If you aren't using Facebook to market your work, IMO you are a fool. It isn't a license to print money, and you have to put a ton of time and effort into it, but it works if you are willing to work.

Jessica, You are smart. I like your strategy. I'm with ya. I also post just my art on the Fan Page, but a lot of my clients who are also friends do not see those posts, so I post my art on both my personal and Fan Page.

Great info Thomas, thanks for going into a little more detail about how you do that.

Well - life moves on. I guess today is the day that I've come to the final conclusion that facebook does nothing for me. I unfollowed a handfull of people - yes - ones who constantly put up their work and even share the work of others - but they have never, not one time, so much as glanced at my work - or liked or shared it. Then I began to wonder why I even cared - except they fill up my pages with their and other people stuff - depressing to say the least. I would close the account - but why bother?

Thomas, thanks a lot for the info, very valuable!

I really think it is only possible to be "successful" on Facebook if one is really social and manages to build a community.

I'm an introvert by nature, maybe this is the reason why I am doing so much better on Pinterest LOL

But I have to say I'm hooked with FB Ads. If we manage to know our audience as Thomas does they can be a wonderful way to reach potential buyers. I dived into FB Ads in the last days (things like Facebook Pixel, Lookalike Audience etc.). Now I understand why Facebook is making so much money with ads :-)

Unfortunately the first step (Know your market) can be the most hard one. But I'm working on it.

Great discussion!

Pinterest Marketing for Artists

I think most artistic people are introverts, but if your using that as an excuse to not selling, your in the wrong business. Many famous singers are introverts and put on spectacular shows, thats just the way it is. Rd, as I have said many times, it takes more than just an artistic talent to make it in the online business world. You definitely have to learn other aspect of the business and learn it to a professional level to be successful. Do I like Facebook, not a chance. I'm just happy its not the only sheriff in town.

https://www.kogalleries.com

In my opinion, the biggest potential in Facebook ads is Remarketing. Especially if you somehow got the person to your site and looking at your images from Facebook in the first place.

I mean...if they click through to look at the detail page of one of your pieces, that shows interest. And hidden within the interst of "everyone" who looks at a piece is the interest level of those who cross the threshold to "buying intent".

But people hold off on buying things. I do. I put stuff in my Amazon shopping cart and leave it there for months until I'm ready to buy it.

So you can retarget thsoe people. Show them an ad of the EXACT piece they were looking at if you wish and get them re-engaged with it. Seems crazy not to.

The trick is having a system to know when to run such an ad for any given piece. You kinda/sorta need to come up with a "reason" to show it again if you want it to be more effective. Sure...you could just show it again and hope for the best...but...a "reason" would be better.

My plan is a price increase. When you raise the price on a certain piece, run ads that let people who looked at it previously know that the price is going up.

Kevin, fully agree. I do sell but I feel more comfortable marketing my art on Pinterest than on Facebook or Instagram. I admire all the people that are really good in building a community but I often find it exhausting to stay connected all the time :-)

Brian: It would be awesome if we could implement the Facebook pixel into our Artist Websites. And yes, an abandoned shopping cart notification would be great too. I know that many people put their stuff in the shopping cart without buying--because they wait for the reminder with a discount code :-)

Pinterest Marketing for Artists

I did not know that they sent reminders with discount codes.

Wait.

Is it Amazon that does that or FAA? (I have not seen it on either though)



[Also, the only way to do remarketing here is to incorporate the shopping cart widget into specific pages on your own website]

Brian, lots of online shops are doing this.
More or less they do train their customers to put something they want in the shopping cart and then wait for a discount code...

FAA is not doing this and I don't know if I want them to do this as it would cut our revenue. But I would love to have both (the FB Pixel and the abandoned shopping cart thing) as an option for our Artist Websites.

You made me think with the shopping cart widget idea... :-) Thanks!

Pinterest Marketing for Artists

Sorry to see you go, Roy, if you do. I was enjoying your posts. New thing [for me!] on Fb this week is, despite having over 3-thousand [well-vetted] friends, 'they' now tell me that I need to add MORE friends IF I want to see MORE posts in my feed! Huh?

The newsfeed simply stops within a minute or so [after I remove the ads] with a note from Fb saying, 'If you want to see more posts, add more friends'. That stinks, as I already have the number of friends I'm comfortable with, active ones. Unfortunately, lately, I rarely see a thing from them, which means I have to go to their Timelines & check in.

I guess the site wants to completely inundate us with ads, likes, friend suggests, game ideas, birthday notices, etc., void of anything meaningful or personal. Sounds more like a dis-connect to me, instead of 'connecting' like they claim.

Nothing stays the same, it's true, but there needs to be some sort of balance between the public marketing ploys & the personal posts we used to enjoy.

I noticed the same thing Brooks. I have only 42 friends but even with that few I noticed a dramatic drop in person posts by my friends, I was mostly just seeing ads and shares. I also wasn't getting hardly any response from my posts, before when I posted a piece of art I'd get at least 6-8 likes, now I'm lucky if I get two, this is in my personal feed/timeline, not a business page. So I looked in the timelines of a couple friends and saw that there were posts there I'd never seen before. I understand FB doing that with business pages, but the personal feeds? It looks to me like FB is in the process of killing the goose.

Well, at least it's not just me, David. But, it's not a good sign, no, all the changes. Needs to be a balance between the business & personal.

Like you, I've seen a major decrease in my views, comments & likes, especially when posting anything FAA...and, in the last week, anything personal. Used to immediately get a large numbers of likes & shares when posting images, but no more.

Ditto re having to go visit friends/family's Timelines in order to see recent posts that used to decorate the feed. Won't continue being active on the site if they keep it up...even if when I garner sales, new friends & cool fans.

I don't think you need to "remarket" the same image to get a person to pull the trigger. You just have to stay connected to them.

And people can do what they want.....but I'll never be telling my audience about price increase. Super great discount deal for my social media followers? One of a kind piece that the artist made and signed himself incorporating a photo? Sure! But never a price increase

I guess I'm in the minority, as my sales grew from 1 or 2 prints a week to 1 or 2 a day (on average) once I began sharing my images in aviation and motorsports groups on Facebook. At first, I never even gave any indication my images were available for POD but people began inquiring so often I created a watermark with my Artist site link. This actually served to answer their question but also, as dozens/hundreds shared my work, the site address traveled with the images all around the world. I've mentioned this before, some of the groups I share in, have as many as 14,000 members/followers. A few years ago, one single image garnered 5,000 likes and 800 shares in 24hrs. If your work is getting that kind of (viewing) traffic without being on Facebook, then I could understand why you have no use for it. As much as I dislike all the other BS that is Facebook, I know it works for me, so I continue to keep it in my marketing toolbox.

@Thomas - it's all about setting expectations from the start.

If your "thing" is that you raise the prices on any piece a week after it sells (firesale pricing) and so people have one week to get it at the previous price before they are locked out....

Then that creates a sense of urgency and a reason to act now.

It works like a sale in reverse, but without the negatives of sales. Namely the devauing of work in the minds of the customer. It happens exactly the opposite. When a customer sees a certain piece with a high price and a high sales history that got it to that price, then that becomes a form of "social proof" that the piece has value to others and thus becomes a "thing" that enables them to give themselves permission to spend more on it as well.

Furthermore, if you make this "the" cor thing in your business, you can have a "recently sold" page. All the items on that page are scheduled for a price increase shortly.

Now how neat would it be if you could find a way to "train" your visitors about this idea that prices only go up...never down...and then have visitors register on your website...and then be able to have the ability to put a star next to their favorite pieces on your site, and then....three months later....when someone else buys that piece, you can send an email to all the people that added that piece to their favories and let them know that one of their favorite pieces was recently sold and that they should give serious consideration to "buying now" before the price goes up for good.

I dunno about you, but I think that that would have a good effect on sales.

Peter, its wonderful to hear your real time results, instead of someone posting a link to others opinions from Google. Gives many of us on the fence a reason to to stay and try a different strategy with joining groups and forget about the rest.

I think Peter is spot on ... he's found a fabulous niche in groups with individuals interested in his subject and therefore his product. Way to go!!!!

Brian,

I see what you are saying, and some marketing strategies like that may work for closed run sales where scarcity becomes an issue. I don't want to do that though.

I have sold and continue to sell some of my images hundreds of times at a really good profit margin for me. What sense does it make to create a sense of urgency for maybe one or two additional sales when you now just priced yourself out of 20 future sales from people who have never seen you before. Creating a sense of urgency to 2000 customers now at the expense of the next 20,000 doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I will take correctly priced work presented to a proven target audience anytime. Seems like making my post popular best selling pieces expensive so that people can no longer afford them as easily isn't a great idea.

As an aside, if you are hacked off with all those annoying ads on Facebook I recommend installing FaceBook Purity which is a great bit of software for "taking control" of a lot of aspects of your FB "experience" :-)

~Richard
reevephotos.com

I do not sell yet, but am just beginning to run ads. Thomas your advice was very timely. Thanks.

I run sales for one SM platform. I have to run them for the next if I am going to use this account on FAA/AW.

That is okay with me. I think people move towards a sale no matter how much they complain. Very human.

It is not fully one way or the other.

I do not think people running in thinking 'oh more cheap prints": There is a expectation that prints are reasonably priced artwork. A sale at Macy's is not much different than a sale at Bridburg's. LOL

Dave

Brooks, I'm not gone - and I found a 'new' group - though they are about to drive me crazy - and I'll be 'refreshing' my old abstracts and putting them up for folks to see. As long as I can remember just to close my eyes, ears, and mouth (fingers) about anything religious or political - I might survive.

Glad you've found a niche, Roy, even if some in the group are bothersome. I know the feeling, lol.

Was a member of several groups for a while, but have since left, except for one. The last one, into which I was initiated by the administrator, looked very promising...and my work received much attention. But, the host, who seemed to be reliable at first, kept changing both the 'rules' & name of the group!? Doesn't bode well for consistency.

Anyhow, yes, the religious & the political. I've pretty much wiped the slate clean of those who ONLY post such things. It's a relief.

Enjoy updating the abstracts! Everything old is new again.

~B

I'm struggling to find groups where I think my art would be welcome, this is why I haven't really tried seriously in the past, whenever I try to make heads or tails of the groups it just confuses me, most of the time the rules aren't even expressed very clear. One group even makes you feel out a questionnaire to join, first question was , "why do you want o join the group?" if I'm honest about that I'm sure they'll reject my application. lol